S.O.S

Luchog wrote: vondy wrote: We have a mechanic friend here who says water will get right passed the rings and it only takes a bit to milkshake. Thats what he says at least. are you trying to convince us or yourself?

Oh, just bringing it up, I keep hearing different things from different people.

Guess I'll get it fixed and see what happens. If there is still water in the oil then I'll dig deeper. Sound like a plan?

Well........

Talked to Ryan's buddy over at Buxton Marine here in town. His first suggestion is to fix or replace the manifold and see if that fixes the problem. If not, he basically suggest a rebuild. Not knowing the hours on the engine, he would be hesitant to put new heads or head gasket on without everything else being solid.

Actually he recommends getting a Jasper engine rather than a rebuild. That would be around $3,000. And have a waranty. Plus installation, etc. I'm sure I would be looking at $4,000 - $4,500.

He gave me the name of a local company that does engine rebuilds so I have contacted them. He seems to think it would be around $3,000 for the rebuild but I'll wait and here from them.

So, if I'm looking at $3,000 minimum to get back on the water, I will have a nice red lawn ornament sitting around for the season.

Also got a name to a company that might be able to fix the manifold, have yet to call them.

Anyway, I'll try that first then hope for the best.

Comments?

does anyone have an extra exhaust manifold to send to Vondy so he can atleast narrow down this issue a little more? Allen maybe? at this stage any type/style for a 351W would work to verify the rest of the engine is fine.

I feel the manifold has a 90% chance of being the issue, the intake gasket, next, I don't feel you sealed the water jacket correctly a thin strip of RTV on one side isn't going to cut it, also letting the RTV set up is not what you want to do in this type of install, valve covers, oil pans yes, intake no.

I suggest you borrow or buy a new exhaust manifold, recruit a professional to install the intake correctly with new Fel-Pro gaskets using a nice bead of RTV on both ends of the block and on all four water ports and both sides of the gasket before installing the intake and not letting the RTV set up any more than the time it takes to lay it down everywhere it needs to be, let it sit over night and then drain the oil and add fresh oil if there is still water in the oil that is currently in the crank case and replacing the oil filter as well, then firing it up and see what happens, if the water returns then it needs torn down to find the problem, might be the head gasket might be the block, if it's the block then there is only one route if there are signs of a head gasket failure then replace it and forget about the rebuild, you didn't have water in the oil before you over heated it so I question the block being the issue and a low percentage that it is. just my .02

Ask the guys at Buxom marine if you can borrow one or maybe a CCF member can help you out, that will at least let you know how bad the heat got to it and in the short term if you have to get new exhaust mainfolds off e-bay then so be it better than having a yard noam for the summer.

also to clarify letting it set over night that is after the intake is installed and before you start the motor to let the RTV cure, Some like over night I say the heat will cure it quicker and have the same results but to be on the safe side over night it before you start it.

I'm leaning that way as well Allen it's just that if he checked it right then he's seeing a leak.

here's a thought, drain the block and all of the hoses that have water in then so that no water is in the crank case or hoses, add fresh oil to the motor and new filter, after drining the old oil out. Pull the coil wire crank it over for a minute to circulate the oil, check the oil make sure that there isn't any signs of water in it, now pull the hose from the output side of the RWP, pour water into the hose and fill the block with water, check oil for signs of water, if now signs crank to motor again for a minute with out adding anymore water and the coil wire still removed, check oil again if there is water in it now then it's not the manifold causing the problem. But a small amount of water can turn into a milkshake quickly, I would agree tyically your going to see motor in the cylinder if it is the manifold and most likely hydrolock the motor too, but if the leak is slight then it could just be sepping past the rings.

just a thought, I too feel it's the intake but the mainfold is much easier to tackle for beginner so I suggested that route first, but there could be problems with the test of the manifold as well.

Here's what I got with this manifold...

There's definitely some form of metal in between the two halves.


This gap is pretty much where the gasket was.


Here's a closeup best I could get it. That dirty looking stuff between the joints is the metal.


This is the depth. Seem like it's right inside the water jacket. I can stick a then piece of plastic in the water drain hole and see it bridge the gap.


Should I get out the hack saw and start cutting? I can cut the bolts and see if that get's it apart. If not, I would assume this mystery lip would need to be cut. If it's deep in there, I can't imagine it coming apart.

?????

81nautique wrote: That's 50 year old gasket material that's been compressed and subject to hundreds of degrees of exhaust gasses. I had the same problem and I can all but guarantee it's not metal.

So at this point should I cut away?

81, did you have a post once on this subject? I remember someone a year or so ago posting multiple pics with these apart. At least I think I do.

David, I do have a good PCM exhaust manifold assembly if you would just like to try it. I can't sell it, I would need it back. It would probably take three days for you to get it. If this would be of any help and you decide you would like to try it call me 219-558-8127. John.

I'd wait until you could soak it with the kroil,remember measure twice cut once. Then get a dead blow hammer and tap on the riser to get it loose. I got mine apart and all I had to replace was the gasket. I think Chris is right,just think about it- it was fine when you used it last,the only thing that changed was the new manifold.

Gary S wrote: I think Chris is right,just think about it- it was fine when you used it last,the only thing that changed was the new manifold.

Gary,
I feel there's a problem with the manifold but I'm still not ruling out the intake issue ether.
With the overheat/no cooling water on aluminum exhaust manifolds, they burn through real quick.

PAPA wrote: David, I do have a good PCM exhaust manifold assembly if you would just like to try it. I can't sell it, I would need it back. It would probably take three days for you to get it. If this would be of any help and you decide you would like to try it call me 219-558-8127. John.

Thanks for the offer! I'll keep it in mind.

Eric, in case you dont want to go through the whole thread, I will give you the "short" version:

Vondy if you can add something please do it, it would be nice to have eric on this train.

Vondy had a hot start issue, he attributed this to a flooding 2bbl carb, so after 5 pages of discussion he was convinced that his best option was a 4bbl carb and intake upgrade.

He installed the intake himself, he seems to have left the sealer cure a few hours before placing the intake on the cut-bolt guides. When he had his intake apart, there were some little water residues on the block but they could have been from moisture and condensation.

He tested the boat on dry and all checked fine, so he went for the lake test, he blew the expansive plug, found the messed up oil.
After he tested the boat back on dry, he noticed a hard starting noise and so I suggested him taking the plugs out and water fired out the cylinder. He also got milkshake oil again.

My personal opinion is he has a crack on the exhaust, that's been there for some time now, maybe from before he switched intakes.
but then there's another issue letting water into the crankcase, might start by the intake gasket, a head, a sleeve, or block.
He also did a compression test at some point at it all checked out good.

What we suggested at this point is that he first solves the exhaust problem, test again and then keep digging on the rest of the engine.

Here you go Dave. I wonder what the reserve is?

So, replacing intake = water in oil....
Water from jug #4 who's intake runner is also adjacent to the water passage.
I'm betting its just the intake's gaskets as well.

David,
Look for a compressed Aramid fiber/Buna-N gasket material. McMaster has it in small pieces. It's good for 400 degress which will be fine for that area since it's water cooled.