S.O.S

OK then I'll go with the marine.

The one Chris linked to is the only Fel-Pro marine one on Summit. I assume it will work? Bore is 4.080 in. The specs in my manual say the bore diameter for a 302-4v is 4.0004-4.0028in. I also assume the 2v would be the same for as the 4v when it comes to cylinder size. Also assuming mine has not been enlarged. I don't know if the thickness of the gasket matters much?

Cleaned up the bolts and they look OK to me. I'll reuse unless anyone objects... Any reason they need to go in the same holes I took them out of? I figured I was going to buy new ones so did not mark them.

Will also clean out the holes for them and use either 30 weight oil or ARP's lube for torquing. Toque in my manual shows 3 steps. 50 / 60 / 65-72.

So that's the plan. Does anyone see anything else I should do or should not do... besides not do it myself

It's now time to start putting things back together. I keep seeing conflicting directions for the head bolts. As I am reusing mine I don't have any directions for the bolts. My engine manual says to tighten in three steps, 60-70-80 lbs. Or something like that. The instructions with the gasket say to tighten to the specified torque, let sit 10 minutes then loosen and tighten again.

What should I be doing here? And do I need to re-torque at any time after she has been running?

Head bolt/stud torque is dependant on the fastener and to a lesser extent the lubricant used for install, and application. Whoever made the fastener is the spec you should follow (likely the one from the engine manual in this case). If the bolt has a section where it necks down from nominal then it is likely to be a torque to yield bolt that should under no circumstances be reused. I feel it is unlikely that you have one of those bolts but one can never be sure. If the gasket manufacturer wants 10 mins between torque steps then what can it hurt, but loosening in between sounds a bit sketchy. On aluminum heads with non torque to yield bolts/studs and in performance or racing applications you need to go back and retorque after after a couple thermal cycles... but I think you are safe here.

Head bolts on some car engines are designed to stretch a little bit, but they typically have tolerances defined for how far they stretch before they are no longer usable. I'm not sure where you can look up the tolerances for head bolts cuz I'm actually only repeating what a good auto mechanic told me.

Disclaimer: I don't know this firsthand. I could be wrong, and it won't upset me if I am.

Well if it was a late 90's or newer I would worry about it since they where not in use before that.

never seen a head bolt that used washers there are all shoulder flange head bolts. Use the old ones unless you really just want to spend money this engine was built decades before yield to torque bolts where ever used.

TRBenj wrote: I should clarify- it seems to be common practice to replace stock Ford Windsor head bolts, as they are supposedly torque to yield. I havent cared enough to check this with my own eyes, but for the extra $40-50, I feel it is cheap insurance in most cases. Of course, I bolted the heads onto my junk Skier with the old bolts, but I know the risks of doing so. Im sure most people swapping out heads would not know the difference, but I would expect a little better information to be given out on this site. Unless you know for certain what type of bolts he has, I would say replace them and err on the side of caution. Feel free to do as you please, just my 2 cents!

Tell me what distinguishing feature do torque to yield bolts have? could you tell the difference between the two if they where placed side by side? my money says no.

DA torque to yield bolts came out after the 351W engine stopped production so how the hell could it have them?

also the entire shaft of a torque to yield bolt is the same diameter as the minor diameter of the thread, very easy to tell the difference BTW sorry I missed Joe point that out to you but all ready know the difference and how to tell them apart visually.


yeild to torque bolt


regular head bolt that can be reused and reused again and again and again

79nautique wrote: DA torque to yield bolts came out after the 351W engine stopped production so how the hell could it have them? also the entire shaft of a torque to yield bolt is the same diameter as the minor diameter of the thread, very easy to tell the difference BTW sorry I missed Joe point that out to you but all ready know the difference and how to tell them apart visually. yeild to torque bolt regular head bolt that can be reused and reused again and again and again

Chris,
How come the above links are for Chevy's? I thought the discussion was about Fords?

TRBenj wrote: 79nautique wrote: DA torque to yield bolts came out after the 351W engine stopped production so how the hell could it have them? DA, the engine in question is a 302 and TTY bolts came out well before Ford stopped production on the 351w. See my previous post for clarification.

show us any marine repair manual that stats to replace the head bolts on a 302 or 351 ford block. DA your barking up the wrong ass tree but I wouldn't expect some wet behind the ears EE to know or ever spec a yield to torque fastener or who could tell the difference without being told what the f they are looking at.

Vondy post a picture of your bolts since that is what is relavent and not some dreamed up BS Timmy boy has in his pea brain.

if it looks like a regular old bolt then use them and if the thread is the largest diameter then they might have been replaced with yield to torque bolts which was a hugh waiste of money if they have been.

I agree with Waterdog. From understanding, once you torque a head FASTENER (not bolt!) it will torque to spec. But once you pull it out, the bolt will have stretched x mm.   The naked eye probably will not catch it. So when you go to re-torque fasteners, they will never be the same torque to what specs says in the manual.   The fastener (AKA bolt) will stretch when torqued and stay at that position until it is loosened again.

Granted, im not an expert, but this what my local speed shop said and why you need to replace the bolts with fasteners. The ARP bolts are actually tapered and use the washer method.

Pretty cool article on what I was trying to say.. :)
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/1126/perfect_engine_sealing_starts_with_proper_head_bolt_use.aspx

Now, I want to see what ol' Chris has to say about that.   (haha)

Waterdog wrote: (If) your using an overhaul manual to get your torque spec's there WILL be notes all over it. "Use new torque to yield fasteners" "Stop do not reuse old bolts." - stuff like that.

yes if it's a late model engine and not a mid 80's or older motor that never was designed to use TTY fasteners, So what relivence does that have NONE


what is the difference between plastic and elastic deformation and which is applicable to what.

Got TWO so called experts repeating secondhand BS that is not even applicable F n idiot and DUMMER12 talking secondhand info out of context for the application.

I concur with chris on this one, the windsors never had TTY head bolts, nor do they need them.

Vondy thanks for e-mailing the pictures,

use the bolts you have make sure none are bent, just roll on a flat surface to check, clean them up and re-install them and don't even give it a second thought or listen to the uneducated fools that don't know elastic deformation occurs on both bolt styles one never gets to plastic deformation and the other does and thus never returns to it's original size because it's permenately deformed and has exceeded the material's elastic limit and can't be re-used, which is a TTY fatener and not what is on your engine so your fine to re-use what orginally came on the engine.