Holley 4160, or edelbrock carb? |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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I can add that a couple weeks back i installed a 6 to 9 psi electric fuel pump on an engine, it leaked like a mfer and kept flooding the engine, the carb was rebuilt with new needles and seats....i replaced the 6 to 9 with a 3 to 5 and the leak quit...
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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waisted your time and money replacing the needle and seat BTW. |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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DA never listen keep waisting effort. Stick a weight on the float while your getting all wet there standing in the wind. |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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DA never listen keep waisting effort. Stick a weight on the float while your getting all wet there standing in the wind. |
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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I think you have solved the problem, you could try lowering the float a tad more, but then try some steady run at 2500-3000rpms to see if it's not too low. |
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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If it stops raining today I will try that. Chris, DIM says spec for the new fuel pump is 6-8 psi. Vince wrote me an email saying it was within spec. Someone else on this site just bought the same pump as I did, and ended up with the same issues regarding raw fuel coming out of the primary Venturis. I don't know if he solved his issues, he was a new member. |
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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same old same old got all the answers all ready sorry your still having issues and waisting money.
My friend that's pretty decent turning wrenches fought and fought a miss at higher RPM, changed this that spent a lot of money chasing it, he finally found the issue after he replaced the brand new fuel pump about a grand later, his was a volume issue, he fixed the pressure and leaking carb with the regulator long ago. |
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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I have not wasted any money, beside a little extra gas.
The original marine fuel pump didn't produce enough psi. I threw on a newer holley automotive fuel pump I had laying around for testing purposes, and then I bought the new correct marine pump from DIM. I'll try the regulator next, as that is the only way to turn down the psi. I need to bend a new fuel line up anyway, I might as well throw a regulator on it at that point. |
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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message edited:
let's see how you do today and then we'll start checking that pressure regulator/volume thing. |
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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I didn't get anywhere today. Tornado waarnings and crazy rain.
I actually had to hang out in the basement admiring my coral reef tank to wait out the tornadic storms. We are all good though. Tomorrow I will work on the boat again. |
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Cedarburg or Tomahawk? Nothing really through 3L's today!! |
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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Pete, how much longer or wider (I.D.) would the fuel hose need to be in order to drop some pressure from the pump to the carb?
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Luciano, The I.D. would need to be smaller and the length needed would be quite long. There's not much flow so there's not much restriction. Even a 1/16" I.D. wouldn't restrict it much. Plus, restriction would be constant at different flows. It's why regulators are used. They adjust to different flows. |
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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Cedarburg , Pete.
I know there were some good storms up north too, but nothing tornadic apparently. |
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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Well, I took her to the lake today. It idled great in gear, and unfortunately due to all the rain we have received in the past week, no wake speed was all that was permitted on the lake today and for a short amount of time until the level goes down.
So, after about 10 laps around the lake, and a couple beers, I attempted to get it a little above just engaged in forward speed and it died. All 3 times it died, so I think I need to adjust the accelerator pump. I will look up exactly how to do that. It doesn't die on the trailer, but then again there is no load when not in gear, and not in the water. |
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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disengage the throttle cable.
-throttle wide open -accelerator pump lever fully engaged -gap between accelerator pump lever and throttle bracket accelerator pump actuating screw should measure 0.15''. |
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Waterdog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-27-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2020 |
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Luchog
gap between accelerator pump lever and throttle bracket accelerator pump actuating screw should measure 0.15 I think you mean .010 inch, not more than 1/8 inch ? |
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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your absolutely right, sorry. |
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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Thanks guys!!!!
I will adjust it today:) I don't know when I will be able to test it out on the lake, but once it's adjusted, it should be good to go. One odd thing I have noticed. The fuel pressure has come down to 5 psi on this new fuel water separator filter. It was at 8-8.5psi when first installed. I put a little over 2 hours of run time on it yesterday. The last one I had on lasted only a week or so and went from the 8-8.5 psi down to 2 psi after about an hour of run time. I have the old filter, but without cutting it open, I can assume it was filled with debris. Hopefully this new filter does not get any more plugged, because at least that's one way to regulate pressure, huh? I'm thinking of adding a clear in line filter before the fuel water separator so I can see when or if the filter is getting clogged. Also, the replacement elements for those are much less $$ than the spin on separator filters. |
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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Ok, I have time to adjust this today. So there should be a gap of .15 when the AP is fully engaged with the throttle all the way open. What nozzle for the AP have you guys been using? I will see what nozzle I have on my carb. It sounds like the nozzle should be one of the smaller ones like 25-30. |
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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Back from the boat.
The accelerator pump was way off. when the throttle was wide open, the arm had no play in it. I adjusted it to the .15 gap as per holley's youtube video, and per Luciano's instructions. next, for the heck of it, I checked to see what nozzle the AP circuit has. It was a 25, so I think that is what it is supposed to be. The fuel pressure is back to 8-8.5 psi, although the filter is the same one I just put on that was reading 5 psi while idling around the lake for a long time the other day. Gas does not come out of the venturis at idle, but a little raw non atomized gas goes through when the throttle is pushed up from idle. It wants to stall if I don't open the throttle more quickly. Here is the pic of where my float is adjusted to. There is not much free play before the float turns off the needle valve, but it can easily do 2500 rpm or more for a couple minutes, or until my tub of water runs out and the hose can't keep up. Where is this "level" where the float is to be set at? The bottom when it is flipped upside down, is that supposed to be level with the flat side of the bowl? I will order the fuel pressure reg from summit tonight, and it will get here soon and I can have it on by mid week, and ready for a test on Wednesday or Thursday. I have 2 important questions though. 1. can I simply mount the regulator off the pump? I see some regulators say that they work best when mounted as close to the carb as possible, but that just won't make mounting it easy, and I would need to have 2 sections of brake line with double flare ends to make this work that way. Would it work ok if I mounted the regulator off the pump, and turned it down to say 5.5 psi or so? 2. What size of NPT do the brake lines for use as fuel lines have? The regulator is 3/8" NPT, and the new marine fuel pump I have is 1/4" NPT, just like the stock one. I plan on putting the fuel pressure gauge inline right after the regulator before the carb so I can monitor psi whenever. I am sure between napa, and the hardware store I can find the fittings to adapt and tee the line. |
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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Luchog, what do you say about this?
My regulator will be here by Thursday at latest, maybe tomorrow, and I want to button it all up and test it out. If it runs properly, I will be taking it up north for a 3 day before I start my new job on Monday. |
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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Bolt the regulator and see how you go. Maybe like Chris friend you get it done.
My take is you might, but you shouldnt need it, my opinion is that something else is off and the regulator may just hide another issue. |
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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You don't think the float is too low in my most recent pic?
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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float being low isn't going to cause a flooding issue or the needle being blown out of the seat causing gas to spew into the carb's throttle body.
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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I didn't think it would, but the pressure issue I do believe is the issue.
There's a reason Holley says no more than 7-7.5 psi for fuel pressure. I just don't like that the only mechanical pump that DIM sells can be anywhere from 6-8 psi as within acceptable spec when 99% of carbed boats have holleys and holley says 8 psi is too high. It was actually reading 9 psi yesterday. I feel really bad for the guy that was on CCF a couple weeks ago and bought the same new pump as I did, and assumed it was making the proper psi and he wondered why he had raw fuel dripping from the venturis. If you buy a new pump for the application, it should be the proper spec pump and shouldn't require a regulator. Parts will be here Tomorrow. |
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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Ok, I got around to installing the regulator today. It's a Holley 4.5 psi- 9 adjustable reg. I had to go from the 1/4 NPT on the pump to the 3/8" NPT on the regulator, because almost all the regulators are 3/8" NPT. Anyway, I got it hooked up, with the psi gauge inline.
As it was set from the factory, the reg was at 6 psi. The dripping resumed immediately, even though psi had gone down from as high as 9 psi to the 6 psi. I then attempted to turn down the pressure to see if that would stop the dripping. Nope, no dice. I took a short video of the dripping even at 4.5 psi. So, what do you guys say now? The spin on filter is new, and the gas is fresh, and the tank looks clean. The pressure test to the power valve and the needle and seat passed on both. Also, I adjusted the gap for the Accelerator pump the other day. It was WAYYY off. I do start my new job Tomorrow, so there is some good news at least. Thanks, Tom |
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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well, at least now you finally know you dont need the pressure regulator
When did this flooding issue start? How do you know it wasnt happening before you switched the fuel pump? Do you still have the old pump around? can you install it back? Dont you have another metering block to test? good luck at the new job tomorrow! |
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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Yeah, the regulator wasn't the issue, but I still feel that some people may have issues from DIM selling a pump that puts out a good amount more than what is supposed to be supplied by the only pump they sell for a PCM 351W.
Yes, I still have the Holley auto pump, and the weak stock PCM AC delco pump. This issue started before I put the new DIM pump on however. I don't think putting the newer holley pump on will help, but I could. No, I have no extra metering block to try. Do these need to be replaced from time to time? I know if they get dirty, they might have issues with not delivering enough fuel, but it shouldn't make it get too much gas. Also, after I shut the motor down, it spilled even more gas down the throat through that venturi until the pressure died off in the line. Now the boat is on a slight angle to the side of the carb that is dripping. That might explain the only side getting that much raw fuel is the port side. Thanks Luciano. It's been a long time coming to get back into my profession since the lay off. This Buyer job really is a great one. |
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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Did you rebuild or had this carb rebuilt recently?
I'd take the metering block out, leave it on carb cleaner for a few hours, shoot it with air on every hole. So on the iddle and transition slots on the carb body. Assemble back and try again. How weak was the old PCM pump? what was the sympton back then? |
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