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1969 Mustang Stringer Rebuild

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-04-2011 at 1:11pm
David that's what I'm talkin about. I wouldn't want any stinkin mufflers in there either.

Can you PM me about how to get in touch with you. I'd like to check out what you have goin on since I will be doing this soon to the Nautique.

Jeff

David....just got your msg....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-04-2011 at 2:27pm
David your progress looks fantastic. Good idea to throw the bell housing in there as a mock up. Now that you have the secondaries in, will your next step be to remove the mains? Once you get into the 8" and biaxial the material begins to overlap in the exhaust channel so you need both stringers down before you get that far. Makes me want to do another boat!
"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vondy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-04-2011 at 3:20pm
Originally posted by Keeganino Keeganino wrote:

David your progress looks fantastic. Good idea to throw the bell housing in there as a mock up. Now that you have the secondaries in, will your next step be to remove the mains? Once you get into the 8" and biaxial the material begins to overlap in the exhaust channel so you need both stringers down before you get that far. Makes me want to do another boat!


Thanks!

Take a look at that pic again, you can see I have the starboard main cut out ground down and the new one sitting in there ready to scribe. Just trying to get my distance between the two correct first.

Man I don't know if I'd want to do this again. Perhaps I'll have to wait till the satisfaction of finishing comes along. Right now all I know is I hurt from grinding and thinking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vondy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-06-2011 at 5:32pm
Thinking ahead some more, should I (can I) relocate my throttle and trans cable to run through the bow? Now they come from the rear of the Morse down the side of the boat. See pic.

This was fine when I was using the floor pan but now that I'm enclosing the floor I think they will need to move forward. Can the Morse be reversed?

I would also assume I will need longer cables. Anyone know the length. Someone did this I believe? Was it Wakeslayer?



Ya'll like my redneck stringer patch I did last year? Actually worked well. The alignment did not budge.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-06-2011 at 5:40pm
Are you ditching the floor pan? Why? I would vote to keep it, and the control cables going down the side as well. Personally, Id add the upholstered pockets back in too. But thats just me.

You can switch the Morse if you want. Instead of 10' and 12' cables, you'll need two 17' ones.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vondy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-06-2011 at 5:56pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Are you ditching the floor pan? Why? I would vote to keep it, and the control cables going down the side as well. Personally, Id add the upholstered pockets back in too. But thats just me.

You can switch the Morse if you want. Instead of 10' and 12' cables, you'll need two 17' ones.


Think we already went over the floorplan . It's to far gone to keep and missing a large piece. I would love to keep it if it were in great shape.

I do plan on rebuilding the pockets. Someone here sent me a template a few years ago.

I'll have to put my cables up for sale, they are only 2 years old.

Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vondy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-08-2011 at 1:16pm
Need some suggestions on how to handle this. As you can see in my pics, the exhaust is going to run into the floor. The plywood is as far back as it can go before it hits the exhaust, the pencil line right behind it is where my seat base starts.

I guess in the past the old fiberglass pan laid partially on top of the exhaust. It also didn't go back very far under the seat base. I'm wanting to close in as much as possible with my plywood floor.

Any thoughts on what I can do? Different pipes?





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WakeSlayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-08-2011 at 2:25pm
David,

I did run the cables forward in our boat. There was some debate about whether you can reverse the old Morse shifters. I think it is impossible, and am still waiting for someone to actually show me how. I got longer cables, ran them back, did a big 180 about 3 feet behind the controller, and then ran them forward. I think I used a 16' and an 18'. Despite not being original, I did not like the cables just runnnig down the side, and then through the stringer. As far as your pipes. I replaced all the hose with new wired wet exhaust hose. Even then I had to have a pretty hefty friend stand on the floor to press it down while I ran screws in. I don't see a way around what you have there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-08-2011 at 6:50pm
David,

Just say "no" to mufflers. You can do it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-08-2011 at 6:57pm
David,
It looks pretty close!! You may even gain the amount needed by under cutting some out of the ply bottom but, SS pipe in place of the fiberglass has a thiner wall.

Mike,
Bring the MV1 to GL and I'll show you how it's reversed.


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Keep it original, Pete
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vondy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-08-2011 at 7:03pm
No mufflers. What about copper? Cheaper than stainless?

What would the sound difference be like between the fiberglass and copper/stainless?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-08-2011 at 7:20pm
David,
Go with the SS. Copper is way up there at this time!!!


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Keep it original, Pete
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WakeSlayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-08-2011 at 8:05pm
Pete,

I'll bet you a Moose Drool. Not a Spotted Cow.   

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vondy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-08-2011 at 8:06pm
Does it matter what I get as long as it's the right thickness and size?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-08-2011 at 8:48pm
Originally posted by WakeSlayer WakeSlayer wrote:

Pete,

I'll bet you a Moose Drool. Not a Spotted Cow.   


Mike,
You're on!!


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Keep it original, Pete
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-08-2011 at 8:49pm
Originally posted by vondy vondy wrote:

Does it matter what I get as long as it's the right thickness and size?

No, if you can find the copper that's great too. Plus, it's more original!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vondy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-08-2011 at 9:06pm
We have a Metal Supermarket by work. I'll drop by there and see what they got. Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-08-2011 at 11:05pm
I reversed mine but I think my control is different than Mike's

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2011 at 3:13am
David,

Let me know what you come up with. My brothers are Master licensed plumbers. I may be able to get you a break on the copper pipe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2011 at 8:32am
The only problem with copper is it's sized by the ID so the OD will actually be 1/8" over. IE: on 2&1/2" the OD will be 2&5/8" - 3" will be 3&1/8". It can be a PITA to get the hose on. If you do find the copper, in those larger sizes, it will be type "M" and used for DWV.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WakeSlayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2011 at 1:44pm
Gary,   that is a Morse 2. Those are reversible.

Pete, I am going to make room to bring a Moose Drool just in case, but I have a feeling you are going to need to find an LQ that stocks in WI.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2011 at 1:54pm
Originally posted by vondy vondy wrote:

No mufflers.

Vondy, what the heck do you have in there now? I would have guessed they were mufflers. They sure dont look original, either way. Original would have either been copper or straight hose- I cant tell exactly what Im looking at there.

My sister had the same problem when she replaced the exhaust hoses in her '69. The removeable panel sat on the hoses/copper, just like yours wants to. Not sure why CC put the tips so far up. Luckily, the fiberglass seat base extended far enough forward so that you dont put any weight on the removeable panel in the section where its sitting on the exhaust. Do you still have the original rear seat pieces?

Another option would be to raise the floor towards the rear by making your stringers a bit taller. Then everything might tuck underneath. How are you handling the rear removeable panel?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vondy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2011 at 2:59pm
As far as I know they are just fiberglass tubes. If there are mufflers in there they don't do much. I sure would not want it any louder.

My seat base is just short of covering it. Might could route out some of the ply floor bottom like Pete suggested. Going to make the removable panel span the exhaust.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2011 at 3:03pm
If theyre fiberglass, Im betting theyre mufflers that a previous owner added. Take a look down them and see if you can see daylight. If not, there are baffles. They dont do a ton to knock down the noise- but they help a little. If you were to replace them with hose or tubing, the diameter would likely be decreased enough to get that seat base forward of the spot where they contact the floor. Just a thought.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2011 at 5:32pm
David,

Mufflers are for wussies. Sell them. They will probably bring a hundred bucks for the pair.

Pete, I could be wrong but I do believe the big copper like that is usually type "K" and is suitable for more than just DWV. Type M is usually soft copper and prob. more expensive.

David, you can buy silicone 3" hose at 4 Star Hose Supply. They are located up around Harry Hines. It runs about $20 a foot. E-basic power or Jamestown Distributors may also have a good deal on the stuff. Silicone exhaust hose is much more flexible than the wire hose although much more expensive. It is also thinner walled with a higher heat rating. If you do have to go with the copper tubing, use the silicone hose to make connections and it should go much much easier than with the wire hose which is a PITA.

Also, the type "K" copper is thicker than the type "M" soft but has the same O.D. If you go copper, get the type "K" and bevel it as much as possible. Pack the tubing in ice and heat the hose. Should help a great deal.

If it were me....I'd buy stainless. Probably close to even money there anyway. And remember, mufflers are for girls. The boat is loud anyway. So if you're gonna be a bear be a grizzly
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WakeSlayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2011 at 5:36pm
$20 per foot isn't really that much more. I think I paid $16+ a foot for the seriously PITA wire hose. I want to say mine was 2.5" in the 68, but do verify your diameter cause they ain't taking back pre-cut hose.
And yeah, lose the mufflers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2011 at 5:44pm
If you can find copper, great- it sure looks cool and sounds great. I cant imagine SS really sounds any different though. And its going to be cheaper too. Plus, since its tubing and not pipe, its measured by OD and will match the ID of the hose perfectly.

If you do decide to go with copper, dont worry about getting exhaust hose over it- it can be done. If you have to make any bends (like going from vertical out of the H-M snails to horizontal in the bilge) then I would highly recommend using corrugated hose. Anything else will kink, especially if its thinner and not reinforced.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2011 at 5:46pm
Jeff,
Hard copper is available in 3 wall thickness's and designated as K, L and M. K being the thickest and M the thinest. Type K is usually used for refrigeration.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2011 at 6:06pm
You are correct Pete. Soft copper is also available in those wall thicknesses. I'm speaking from a local perspective because in this state, typically type "M" and "L" are used in soft applications. Type "K", although commonly used in refrigeration, is usually the preferred spec. for commercial piping applications inside a building here. Many times, that will be the way the local supplies run their inventory. So if he goes in and asks for Type "M" they may very well sell him soft copper in a complete roll. Talk about a PITA. It takes a couple of guys to unravel that crap. In the end, he can probably acquire the Type "K" hard for less money and with less frustration.

David and I only live about 45 minutes apart, so I'm speaking from local experience. I used to do the commercial takeoffs and estimates for my brothers when we had a commercial plumbing business together. I also personally held a Journeyman plumbing license at one point in my career. LOL...it's a subject for which I am not so proud to say, I have learned the hard way. Boy were they mad to see a roll of big soft copper show up instead of hard copper. They made me come help unravel it and I never made the mistake again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2011 at 6:16pm
Originally posted by WakeSlayer WakeSlayer wrote:

$20 per foot isn't really that much more. I think I paid $16+ a foot for the seriously PITA wire hose. I want to say mine was 2.5" in the 68, but do verify your diameter cause they ain't taking back pre-cut hose.
And yeah, lose the mufflers.


I can get the wire hose here for about $12 a foot. It can be had through the internet for as cheap as $9. It's the non wire hose that usually costs me in the $16 range. Go figure, but it's actually rated higher.
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