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1969 Mustang Stringer Rebuild

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2011 at 6:21pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

If you can find copper, great- it sure looks cool and sounds great. I cant imagine SS really sounds any different though. And its going to be cheaper too. Plus, since its tubing and not pipe, its measured by OD and will match the ID of the hose perfectly. That would be the easy choice if you decide to ditch the mufflers. I can understand both sides of the muffler argument, by the way... Ive removed mufflers from more than one boat, and will be adding some to a boat that didnt have them originally. Thats a personal call.

If you do decide to go with copper, dont worry about getting exhaust hose over it- it can be done. If you have to make any bends (like going from vertical out of the H-M snails to horizontal in the bilge) then I would highly recommend using corrugated hose. Anything else will kink, especially if its thinner and not reinforced.


Excellent point on the kinking Tim. The silicone kinks very easily by the way. If he uses copper, he could braze a 45 in there easy enough or even a 22 1/2 or 30 if necessary.

Shhhhh....I thought there was a rule on here against advocating for mufflers....especially on a boat that didn't come with them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2011 at 6:35pm
Originally posted by TX Wind TX Wind wrote:

Excellent point on the kinking Tim. The silicone kinks very easily by the way. If he uses copper, he could braze a 45 in there easy enough or even a 22 1/2 or 30 if necessary.



Shhhhh....I thought there was a rule on here against advocating for mufflers....especially on a boat that didn't come with them.


The manifolds exit slightly less than vertically (towards the front due to the engine angle) so he's need a 90 in there if he were to use soft walled hose. We got the corrugated over the copper on my sister's Stang though- just takes a little muscle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vondy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2011 at 8:27pm
Looks like another project to add to the list.

Thanks for the recommendations, Jeff thanks for your references.

I'll have more questions once I actually dig into this part.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2011 at 9:33pm

"No worries on the muffler comments... my track record speaks for itself".

Big talk from you guys who have never spent some time in a HM powered boat    When your sittin on the doc with blood dripping out your ears,then I'll listen to you. Won't hear you but I'll pretend I do. Ask John or Eddie how mine sounds with mufflers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vondy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-10-2011 at 3:14am
I have to second Gary, this thing is pretty loud with what its got. I assume they are glasspacks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-10-2011 at 4:21am
Well...If you really wanted to keep the mufflers, you could put a slight angle to the floor under the seat and then pull it out with the seat base. Getting some glass over the stringers should move you a bit closer to the edge of the seat before it hits the mufflers. It might not be that bad in the end.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-10-2011 at 4:23am
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Originally posted by TX Wind TX Wind wrote:

Excellent point on the kinking Tim. The silicone kinks very easily by the way. If he uses copper, he could braze a 45 in there easy enough or even a 22 1/2 or 30 if necessary.

Shhhhh....I thought there was a rule on here against advocating for mufflers....especially on a boat that didn't come with them.

The manifolds exit slightly less than vertically (towards the front due to the engine angle) so he's need a 90 in there if he were to use soft walled hose. We got the corrugated over the copper on my sister's Stang though- just takes a little muscle.

No worries on the muffler comments... my track record speaks for itself.


I have tremendous respect for what you do and what you know Tim. That BFN is the bomb.


Didn't this boat come with corrugated anyway?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-10-2011 at 10:55am
Originally posted by TX Wind TX Wind wrote:

Didn't this boat come with corrugated anyway?

Vondy's? Very possibly. My '71 Skier still has the original corrugated hose on it. I would have expected a '69 H-M to have some copper in the exhaust as well.

Gary, I havent spent a *ton* of time in H-M boats, but Ive spent some. A lot of time spent listening from shore, too- there was a '70 H-M on our lake that had to have 10,000 hrs on it. It was *almost* the loudest ski boat Ive experienced... Id say Reid's '73 takes the cake, but my sister's Stang with the aluminum Interceptor logs exiting to 3" out the back with a healthy stretch of copper is pretty close too. My '90 isnt exactly quiet either:



^^This one will get mufflers before long though^^. Im curious to hear how loud the BFN will be with aluminum manifolds and 4" all the way back- Im hoping its bearable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WakeSlayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-10-2011 at 11:32am
Reid's Skier is freaking awesome.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-10-2011 at 11:49am
I bought some used mufflers for my 81, currently aluminum edelbrocks to stainless out the back. When I fired it up in the driveway this weekend I put the mufflers back in the garage...I just can't put them on yet!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-10-2011 at 12:01pm
[QUOTE=TRBenj] I would have expected a '69 H-M to have some copper in the exhaust as well.
QUOTE]

Mine just had molded 90's at the manifolds and straight hose out the rest of the way
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-10-2011 at 12:15pm
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

I would have expected a '69 H-M to have some copper in the exhaust as well.


Mine just had molded 90's at the manifolds and straight hose out the rest of the way

Good info, Gary. Im curious what years CC was putting copper in the exhausts- my sister's boat didnt have any copper either, just 2-1/4" hose. With all the volume the H-M's put out, I would have thought there was some metal in the exhaust... I guess the 3" and aluminum manifolds are enough! That also explains why it seems like her '69 is so loud now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-10-2011 at 12:41pm
If they were using copper, I would guess it was early 60's and earlier. Has anyone ever seen copper piping that was original?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-10-2011 at 12:51pm
Originally posted by Riley Riley wrote:

If they were using copper, I would guess it was early 60's and earlier. Has anyone ever seen copper piping that was original?

CC used it in the 70's from what I understand. Tom Lawton had copper pipes in his '76 Ski Tique.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-10-2011 at 12:53pm
Originally posted by Riley Riley wrote:

If they were using copper, I would guess it was early 60's and earlier. Has anyone ever seen copper piping that was original?

Bruce,
Yes, I have and feel it was the mid 60's when they were switching over to all rubber.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MAN - GA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-10-2011 at 2:07pm
For what its worth my 75 Mustang has 3" copper tubes and it sounds great - just curious if log or riser style is louder?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-10-2011 at 2:15pm
Originally posted by MAN - GA MAN - GA wrote:

For what its worth my 75 Mustang has 3" copper tubes and it sounds great - just curious if log or riser style is louder?

I dont believe the manifold style (log vs. pyramid) makes much difference in volume- but the manifold material does seem to have an effect. Aluminum or SS manifolds tend to be louder than cast iron.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-10-2011 at 6:17pm
I wonder why they would have used copper pipe in the later years as the rubber hose was better quality than in the earlier years? Maybe the gear head factor at the factory at the time? I think the next engine I put in a boat is going to have copper tubes rather than straight rubber, just for the extra noise.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-10-2011 at 6:36pm
Bruce, maybe it was a cost saving measure? Obviously not the case now, but at one point, was copper pipe cheaper than hose?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-10-2011 at 10:00pm
Copper is a commodity and the price varies widely, altho rite now it is as high as I have ever seen it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-11-2011 at 9:08am
Originally posted by Brady Brady wrote:

Copper is a commodity and the price varies widely, altho rite now it is as high as I have ever seen it.

Rubber's way up there now too due to the oil in it. I just had to buy a new set of E tires for the truck since the fronts looked more like "slicks"!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-11-2011 at 6:20pm
My 73 Skier has copper pipes and I love the sound tone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vondy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-25-2011 at 6:15pm
Update. Have one last stringer ready to bed this week. Taking an extra day off this weekend so I'll have 4 straight days of working on this crazy project. My goal is to have the entire floor down. Minus the vinyl, still have to order that.

2 questions...

Is the goal to get all the glass on the stringers in one sitting? While it's green? Biax wrap and all?

And where are you guys getting your bilge paint?

Thanks! I'll post some pics soon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WakeSlayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-25-2011 at 7:26pm
I guess that is a goal, but it is pretty tough to do in practice, in my opinion. Perhaps if you just do one stringer at a time, but if you are trying to do both at once, or all four, you are going to have a really tough time. Take your time and do it right. You will have bubbles to roll out, epoxy to mix, glass to cut, and patience to run out of. I think I was able to get all the thin stuff in one shot, and then did the biax the next night.
BilgeKote is available from Jamestown, USC, and West. I think I only bought a quart, did two coats, and have some left still. Nasty crap, do it outside or with the door open at least. I used white. Looks great til you get a motor running in there and bilge water, etc. I would use gray next time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-25-2011 at 7:36pm
2 stringers at a time (primaries/secondaries) is much more doable than 4. Even if all your glass is precut, it will still wear you out. Build yourself a platform to hold everything (glass/resin) so youre not constantly in and out of the boat, and you wont wear out as quickly.

Id pass on the bilgekote. Several of us have had problems getting it to stick to the directly to the epoxy. When I called their tech service they told me that it needed a primer when used over it... I guess they dont consider epoxy to be a type of fiberglass, wtf. Stripping all the uncured paint out of our bilge was a nightmare. If youve got all of the gel ground out of the bilge, either tinted epoxy or gelcoat would be my recommendation- thats all Ill use from here on out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-25-2011 at 7:52pm
I was one of those who had problems with the bilgekote. It never set properly even after 2 full days in the direct sun in the middle of July. I second Mike's advice- don't use white! I like the tinted epoxy idea and will be inclined to go that route on my next one if Tim is still happy with it after the boat is on the water.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vondy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-25-2011 at 9:04pm
Yeah I guess that was my plan, two stringers at a time.

So what's the process on using tinted epoxy for the bilge? What do you tint it with? Do you just brush it on like paint? Thicken it at all?

Wonder if I'll have enough left over....

Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-25-2011 at 9:30pm
David,
The tints are available from US Composites (didn't you get your supplies from them? or where ever you got the resin. It brushes or rolls on just like regular epoxy.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vondy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-26-2011 at 11:01am
Thanks Pete. That seams easy enough.

I would really love white but I know I would regret it as soon as the first drop of oil hit. Will probably go with gray, although blue might be an option.

On a side note, is this a voltage regulator? Apparently I had part of a zip tie fall behind it and melt to the exposed coils. When I pulled it off it took the coil with it. So I guess I need a new one.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-26-2011 at 11:22am
David,
Yes, that's the voltage regulator. Go to a decent auto supply (not Autozone! ) and se what luck you have with them having/finding one. Unfortunately with the advent of internally regulated alternators, these old ones can be hard to find. Some of the real old ones are going for their weight close to gold!!!


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