S.O.S. - Part Deux |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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Hey Tom,
Still following. Your hydrolock scenario does seem plausible. I guess if water was in a cylinder long enough, it could work it's way down into the engine oil. I found this article on Marine Exhaust Manifolds. I know just a little about how the exhaust manifolds work and nothing about how they fail. I'd be interested to hear from someone more familiar. |
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76tique
Senior Member Joined: April-12-2009 Location: Nyack, NY Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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Thanks Brian. Definitely a confusing diagnosis with the battery cable issue I was having that day. Don't know why I didn't put that together sooner. I am thinking that a hydrolock might more common when sitting or cranking for an extended period due to the lack of exhaust gases flowing out the manifold /riser, if it is a minor leak. But really have no idea. The article you sent really makes me want to pull the exhaust manifolds or at least risers and have a look!
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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does you boat have the rubber flaps on the exhaust pipes end?
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76tique
Senior Member Joined: April-12-2009 Location: Nyack, NY Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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Yes, I do have the one-way rubber flaps installed. Curious why you asked - I have read in other threads on this site that the flaps are unnecessary.
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76tique
Senior Member Joined: April-12-2009 Location: Nyack, NY Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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Well, I discovered why the boat was idleing rough when I was replacing the wires - 3 plugs were hooked up out of order! Probably also why the timing was so far off. I'm sure this was the cause of fouled #6.
The PO always had the boat "Pro" serviced by a now out of business dealer. Just goes to show you can't take anything for granted when dealing with "Pros" I can't believe the boat was running as well as it was on 5 cylinders! Pretty embarrassing that I though it was running reasonably ok before...it now purrs like a kitten at idle and runs like new, blasts out of the hole and holds speed awesomely. 100% improvement with new carb and wires hooked up in the correct order! Still no signs of water in the oil after another 6 hours on the lake. I'm guessing that the elevated oil level last time was due to fuel from the cylinders that were not firing. Risers are definitely way hot on top and cold on the bottom - seem hotter on top now that the boat is running right- planning on pulling them off to check this week. Based on the plug wires I am wondering if the riser gaskets are installed backwards... |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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I guess it makes sense that the manifolds would be hotter now. Cylinders that aren't firing aren't generating any heat.
How is the temp gauge reading? Also, not sure if you mentioned if you checked the impeller etc. Are you pretty sure you're drawing in enough cool water (ie bucket test)? Worth checking before you pull the manifolds. That's awesome that you got it running well |
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Mark Mel
Gold Member Joined: September-16-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 583 |
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Nice sounds like you almost have it sorted. You might want to do the riser gaskets anyway. From some of the pics it looks like they are/were linking at some point.
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Donald80SN
Grand Poobah Joined: January-12-2009 Location: Denver, NC Status: Offline Points: 3896 |
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76,
Did you have to do much tuning on that new carb or was it mostly plug and play? I am glad you do not have bigger problems at this point. Donald |
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76tique
Senior Member Joined: April-12-2009 Location: Nyack, NY Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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Thanks guys. Mark, we missed you out there on Monday! It was another epic day with great weather. We'll be back out again this Monday, hope to see you guys out there.
Brian, the motor runs right at 160 on the guage with almost no fluctuation. I do have a problem with a leaky raw water strainer gasket that I am going to fix this week, so I don't think cooling is 100%. I am just thinking about pulling the risers to have a look because I still have no idea where that water came from. Since it hasn't happened again yet I am pretty stumped, and think the exhaust may be the best bet (especially looking at the external condition of the manifolds/risers). Donald, the skidim carb has been pretty much plug and play. All I have done so far is adjust the idle speed. I do have an issue with the front venturi boosters dumping fuel on the ramp - started a separate post on that one. I think I am going to have to play with the float level a little. But other than that, it runs great!! |
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Donald80SN
Grand Poobah Joined: January-12-2009 Location: Denver, NC Status: Offline Points: 3896 |
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Cool,
Thanks for the response. Donald |
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Mark Mel
Gold Member Joined: September-16-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 583 |
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Tom, we will be out this Monday for sure.
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Jllogan
Platinum Member Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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Does anyone know the purpose of these flaps? |
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Mark Mel
Gold Member Joined: September-16-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 583 |
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Tom, Got your PM. For some reason I can't PM you back. Send me your email addy in another PM.
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76tique
Senior Member Joined: April-12-2009 Location: Nyack, NY Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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Thought I would update this post...I've run another 40 gallons of gas through the boat and no signs of any water in the oil. Risers are still running hot with some steam out the exhaust on acceleration. I finally pulled them off to check out the gaskets tonight (way easier than I thought) and just as I suspected the gaskets were installed backward, with the blocked off part forward. Hopefully hot riser problem solved.
From what I can see, there isn't much corrosion going on. Didn't see any obvious water path through the gaskets. I was going to have the manifolds pressure tested, but now I am not so sure I want to remove them. Worried about breaking off bolts in the heads. I am thinking of just cleaning up the riser mounting surface and reinstalling with new gaskets. What do you guys think? Some questions on reinstalling... 1. Should I use some kind of gasket cement? P/O seems to have used something. 2. How much torque on the bolts? I can't find a spec in the service manual. 3. There is some corrosion on the bolts. Good idea to swap to stainless? Or stick with these and use never seize? Never seize a good/bad idea for any reason? 4. What is the best way to clean mounting surface? I have scraped off with a razor blade. Was thinking of using emory cloth and a flat block to try and smooth out a bit, particularly the aft part of the water jackets where there seems to be a little corrosion. Pics: note the risers are wet b/c I flushed with a garden hose to remove some rust scale above where the blocked off gasket was. Deposits inside the port manifold dropped out of the front of the riser when I pulled it off. I didn't see any obvious cracks/leakage looking down in the manifolds. Port Manifold: Port Riser: Starboard Manifold: Starboard Riser: Any and all opinions appreciated...I am looking to get the risers reinstalled within the next couple of days. As always, thanks for your input guys!! |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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I know Skidim has an exhaust hardware service kit with everything you need as far as bolts and gaskets:
Kit Also looks like they have a lot of the bolts and things individually on the PCM Exhaust pages. Do you have access to a compressor? These little Angle Grinders are good for stuff like that. I'm sure other brands make them cheaper. A Caddilac parts department could probably supply you with these special soft rubber nubby disks. They are used to remove corrosion from alloy wheels. I'm sure there are other/cheaper options for resurfacing. Those did work well for removing bad metal without taking off too much good metal. |
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Tom - I recommend cleaning up the mounting surfaces by getting a flat wood block (short 2x6 for example) & stapling some emery cloth to it. Then keep it flat on the surface & sand until cleanup. No gasket sealer is needed. Run a tap into the threaded holes for cleanup of threads. Use new stainless screws. Torque to about 20 ft lbs. Use anti-seize on the threads. Great that you found the problem.
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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Careful of any metal filings going back into an open valve. I'd pull the manifolds to do the work.
I see a little pitting there too. However you decide to go, be careful of what you let pass as flat. A pine 2x won't stay flat even if it is to start with. |
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Morfoot
Grand Poobah Joined: February-06-2004 Location: South Lanier Status: Offline Points: 5320 |
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Justin, the purpose of these flaps is to prevent water from being forced up the tailpipes when the boat is in reverse. |
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"Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman"
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Jllogan
Platinum Member Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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Ahha, that makes sense.
I also experience some steam when I am accelerating hard a running full throttle, do you guys think that some water is leaking in the exhaust causing that? My manifolds are rusted on the bottoms and were JB welded by the previous owner. This probably means the inside is pretty bad as well? What are you thoughts. Should I replace ASAP or you think they could make it to the end of the season? |
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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76tique
Senior Member Joined: April-12-2009 Location: Nyack, NY Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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Well, now that my season is over, thought I would post a "conclusion" to this thread. Didn't want to jinx myself posting earlier. I ran 250 or so gallons of fuel through the boat since the water in oil problem, so I am pretty sure it was solved. I think it was the riser gaskets, though I also found one of the exhaust hoses was so deteriorated under the fuel tank that it actually kinked on me and caused a miss, then split wide open the week after I last posted here. That may have been related as well...ended up replacing all of the exhaust hose, no further issues.
Cooling system seems to be working great after the riser gasket replacement and fishing some impeller bits (left from the P/O) out of the thermostat housing the week after. Anyway, thanks to all for your help here! It's been an educational season with my "new" boat for sure! |
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