Debt

phospher wrote: I learn trickle down economics from real life. The company I work on homes valued up to 12 million dollars, when the rich are spending I work all the overtime I want and spend accordingly when they are not I work 32 hours a week and budget severly. So I see it go from the rich to my employer, to me, and to every I buy from, and I know it goes on from them. hard to not believe it when you see it for yourself. Sounds about right. Your sample size of 1(yourself) is not sufficient evidence. You personally might benefit because of your line of work, but how many people can really afford multimillion dollar homes? Not a lot! Seems more people would benefit from building homes priced in the 125,000 - 300,000 price range. Duh. Try again.

Duh we have a housing crisis with a glut of devalued homes in the bracket you mention. How does incresing that inventory help anyone?

The example above sounds like low paid servants to me, at the mercy of the rich.

You work hard for your money, and it only comes when you work. While you are pissed about the social benefits of this country, you say nothing of the low amount of work and the great rewards of playing the stock market, in which they do not pay a fair share of taxes on.

phospher wrote: OverMyHead wrote: Phil, yoi are a broken record I asked what else we can do about debt AFTER taxing the rich. Your answer( paraphrased) tax the rich,tax the rich,tax the rich, increase spending. Aaaaahhhhhhhhh. You must not comprehend well. Cutting military spending is taxing the rich? And if you recall, bush tax cuts were not just for the rich. I like how you avoided my question though. And did you look at the link of the chart I posted? Hard to argue against that.

I comprehend very well, you would love to cut military spending during a budget surplus so you are giving up nothing. And the Bush tax cuts do effect everyone, thanks for bringing that up. This is a very important point. I have been arguing against taxing the rich and have been told that is against my own interest. I stated once they can do it to the rich they can do it to anyone. In my example I gave phil his wish, I said tax the crap out of the rich, and as pointed out earlier that is a 1000 year solution . We do not have enough rich to tax our way out of the situation. I asked what we do then. In Phils answer do you see any the compromise our president calls out for? Or just tired partison politics after I gave him his wish? He came back with the liberal playbook answer, closing loopholes and taxhavens had already been covered by taxing the crap out of the rich. Cutting the military is a liberal given, and the military is only 20% of our budget anyway, eliminating the military would not solve our problem, but it sure would create a few. Phil then recommended raising taxes on everyone including a 5% increase to the lowest bracket. As I predicted when the rich are out of money the liberals will come strait after the rest of us. He also proposed increasing school funding. How does that erase a deficit? I am asking for a real solution to a real spending problem. I would propose an across the board percentage cut, with congress out of the loop on spending decisions. No protecting pet projects to buy votes, let those effected make their own decisions and put the money where it is most effective. A very fair compromise.

Big AP headline today

"Obamas dilema,Should he take a vacation now?"

We have two wars, high fuel prices, 9 percent unemployment, downgraded credit, and his vacation is his biggest dilema. How out of touch can the guy get.

ononewheel wrote: The example above sounds like low paid servants to me, at the mercy of the rich. You work hard for your money, and it only comes when you work. While you are pissed about the social benefits of this country, you say nothing of the low amount of work and the great rewards of playing the stock market, in which they do not pay a fair share of taxes on.

I choose the hardwood floor industry as a means to an end, it allowed me to go back to school and finish a BS degree, something I could not do working 24 hour shifts as a paramedic. It was reasonably lucrative when I got in, pickings are a little slim right now. As for being a servant we all serve those that we work for and our customers. As I said, I have worked on homes up to 12 mill in value, that incledes 75k condos, 250k starter homes on up. I dont feel the relationship with the home owners or builders is much different based on the home value. I take pride in my work and have always been committed to customer service. Working on the high end homes is an honor and being trusted to work on them the greatest compliment I can recieve. I have never been called a servant by a homeowner, no matter what their income level. I have been reffered to as an artist which means alot from people used to the best things in life. I am looking for new opportunities which only adds to my passion about job creation because it is tough out there right now.

We are taxed on income not work, otherwise volunteers would pay a fortune. People investing take risks, and would not do it if not for the potential reward. I had a neighbor that dreamed of being a commodity trader. He learned about the industry and practiced making trades for a year till he was confident in his skills. He sold his home and used the equity for seed money and to by a seat on the exchange. I ran into him a year later, he had done well for 6 months and then lost everything on one bad trade. He was back at his old job and living in an apartment, finacialy about ten years behind from where he had been. The grass is always greener.

phospher wrote: skicat2001 wrote: Perry made it work in all industry's. Small business are doing well here too. Plus he fits socially better than others. Yep, good ole Texas where 1 in 4 people don't have health insurance. Texas and Mississippi led the nation last year with 9.5 percent of hourly workers earning at or less than the federal minimum hourly wage of $7.25. Sounds like a great place.

Glad to see at least someone has looked up his record.

Anyone else care to google "Texas quality of life"


He even said the only difference between him and Bush, is the University they went to. Yikes.

Can I get an explanation of what, if anything FDR's new deal did for our economy?

And how it might relate to our current situation?

ononewheel wrote: Can I get an explanation of what, if anything FDR's new deal did for our economy? And how it might relate to our current situation?

Depends on the economist. Some tout the job creation It certainly helped those employed on works projects, some believe it doubled the length of the recession. The problem is you can never go back and see what happens if you did it differently. All you can do is look at trends from different policys when they are tried. In economics they talk about multipliers, that dollars added into the economy multiply as they travel through. For government spending the multiplier is generally considered to be -1 to 3 depending on the economic conditions, for private spending it is I believe it goes from 1 to 14,the difference being the money for govt comes out of the private secter as taxes or devaluation from printing money, it's like taking water from the deep end of the pool and dumping it back into the shallow end and expecting the shallow end to get deeper. This is why trickle down economics works, the multiplier is higher for the private sector. You will notice that no one ever asks a poor person for a job, no matter what entitlements increases occur. Unforunatly when conditions are bad such as in times of uncertainty (now) the multipliers will always be on the low end. Certainly the stimulus multiplier numbers are very low.

phospher wrote: [QUOTE=OverMyHead] [QUOTE=phospher] [Edit: Also, if your supply side theory works then why do all sources point to a growing inequality gap?

I never said every dollar trickles down. There are many factors to growing wealth, you of course need some excess to save and invest. You need self restraint to not blow every cent you get. Just plain luck is a big factor. There are no guarantees, two people can follow the same plan with different results. My parents told me often growing up that life is not fair. The best you can do is do your best. This is a good lesson.

Your President is going to create new jobs in America this September. One will be a bus company so we won't have to buy canadian built million dollar buses anymore.

phospher wrote: harddock wrote: Your President is going to create new jobs in America this September. One will be a bus company so we won't have to buy canadian built million dollar buses anymore. Yeah, I'm not counting on or very fond of that guy either.

U think!!

phospher wrote:    If your trickle down theory works then where the F are all the jobs?

Obama scared them away. too much change, not any hope!

For those that have not had the opportunity

On the far-away island of Sala-ma-Sond,
Yertle the Turtle was king of the pond.
A nice little pond. It was clean. It was neat.
The water was warm. There was plenty to eat.
The turtles had everything turtles might need.
And they were all happy. Quite happy indeed.

They were… until Yertle, the king of them all,
Decided the kingdom he ruled was too small.
“I’m ruler”, said Yertle, “of all that I see.
But I don’t see enough. That’s the trouble with me.
With this stone for a throne, I look down on my pond
But I cannot look down on the places beyond.
This throne that I sit on is too, too low down.
It ought to be higher!” he said with a frown.
“If I could sit high, how much greater I’d be!
What a king! I’d be ruler of all that I see!”

So Yertle the Turtle King, lifted his hand
And Yertle, the Turtle King, gave a command.
He ordered nine turtles to swim to his stone
And, using these turtles, he built a new throne.
He made each turtle stand on another one’s back
And he piled them all up in a nine-turtle stack.
And then Yertle climbed up. He sat down on the pile.
What a wonderful view! He could see ‘most a mile!

“All mine!” Yertle cried. “Oh, the things I now rule!
I’m the king of a cow! And I’m the king of a mule!
I’m the king of a house! And, what’s more, beyond that
I’m the king of a blueberry bush and a cat!
I’m Yertle the Turtle! Oh, marvelous me!
For I am the ruler of all that I see!”

And all through the morning, he sat up there high
Saying over and over, “A great king am I!”
Until ‘long about noon. Then he heard a faint sigh.
“What’s that?” snapped the king,and he looked down the stack.
And he saw, at the bottom, a turtle named Mack.
Just a part of his throne. And this plain little turtle
Looked up and he said, “Beg your pardon, King Yertle.
I’ve pains in my back and my shoulders and knees.
How long must we stand here, Your Majesty, please?”

“SILENCE!” the King of the Turtles barked back.
“I’m king, and you’re only a turtle named Mack.”

“You stay in your place while I sit here and rule.
I’m the king of a cow! And I’m the king of a mule!
I’m the king of a house! And a bush! And a cat!
But that isn’t all. I’ll do better than that!
My throne shall be higher!” his royal voice thundered,
“So pile up more turtles! I want ’bout two hundred!”

“Turtles! More turtles!” he bellowed and brayed.
And the turtles ‘way down in the pond were afraid.
They trembled. They shook. But they came. They obeyed.
From all over the pond, they came swimming by dozens.
Whole families of turtles, with uncles and cousins.
And all of them stepped on the head of poor Mack.
One after another, they climbed up the stack.

Then Yertle the Turtle was perched up so high,
He could see forty miles from his throne in the sky!
“Hooray!” shouted Yertle. “I’m the king of the trees!
I’m king of the birds! And I’m king of the bees!
I’m king of the butterflies! King of the air!
Ah, me! What a throne! What a wonderful chair!
I’m Yertle the Turtle! Oh, marvelous me!
For I am the ruler of all that I see!”

Then again, from below, in the great heavy stack,
Came a groan from that plain little turtle named Mack.
“Your Majesty, please… I don’t like to complain,
But down here below, we are feeling great pain.
I know, up on top you are seeing great sights,
But down here at the bottom we, too, should have rights.
We turtles can’t stand it. Our shells will all crack!
Besides, we need food. We are starving!” groaned Mack.

“You hush up your mouth!” howled the mighty King Yertle.
“You’ve no right to talk to the world’s highest turtle.
I rule from the clouds! Over land! Over sea!
There’s nothing, no, NOTHING, that’s higher than me!”

But, while he was shouting, he saw with surprise
That the moon of the evening was starting to rise
Up over his head in the darkening skies.
“What’s THAT?” snorted Yertle. “Say, what IS that thing
That dares to be higher than Yertle the King?
I shall not allow it! I’ll go higher still!
I’ll build my throne higher! I can and I will!
I’ll call some more turtles. I’ll stack ‘em to heaven!
I need ’bout five thousand, six hundred and seven!”

But, as Yertle, the Turtle King, lifted his hand
And started to order and give the command,
That plain little turtle below in the stack,
That plain little turtle whose name was just Mack,
Decided he’d taken enough. And he had.
And that plain little lad got a bit mad.
And that plain little Mack did a plain little thing.
He burped!
And his burp shook the throne of the king!

And Yertle the Turtle, the king of the trees,
The king of the air and the birds and the bees,
The king of a house and a cow and a mule…
Well, that was the end of the Turtle King’s rule!
For Yertle, the King of all Sala-ma-Sond,
Fell off his high throne and fell Plunk! in the pond!

And today the great Yertle, that Marvelous he,
Is King of the Mud. That is all he can see.
And the turtles, of course… all the turtles are free
As turtles and, maybe, all creatures should be.

by Dr. Seuss

and then he said, operation twin is a go

I wouldn't touch that bet. It will be the same old BS....:

- We must rebuild the nations infratructure (Hmmm! I thought we did that with the first porkulus??)
- We need to tax the millionaires, billionaires, and corporate jet types.
- We must extend payroll tax deductions.
- We must pass patent laws.

YAWN!!! This guy just does't get it. In my opinion, the only thing government can do to create jobs is to reduce our debt, balance the budget, and eliminate job smothering government regulations, lower our taxes.....and basically get the HELL off our backs!! Obama just isn't hard wired to do these things. In fact, he believes in all these things and wants to expand them. The economy won't turn around until Obama and his thugs are out of office.