Debt

I always wonder if Canada has these problems? or do they keep their mouths shut and have a sense of not letting a good thing out.
really attached to our shoulders, how is the economy up in Tundra land?

OverMyHead wrote: I am not big on do what I say, not what I do. If Wareen believes what he says he believes than he can instruct his accountants to take a less agressive stance, pay more taxes, and then hold his percentage up in public and challenge others to do the same. That I could respect. Currently he is speaking out both sides of his mouth. "The rich dont pay enough" in public, and "take every questionable deduction" to his accountants in private. If you are going to lecture others you should have your own house in order first. A one in three chance of prevailing is a two in three chance of being a tax cheat. I noticed when walmart was mentioned they were not called "agressive", they were labeled "not paying taxes".

I'm quoting someone here(I don't actually know who wrote this) that I happen to agree with..


"I realize the attacks are political, and so fact won't matter to many, but the facts are:

1) This is NOT about his personal taxes, which are quite simple and have been paid.

2) This is about the "consolida­ted" tax returns for Berkshire Hathaway, which are complex enough to drive a CPA mad...Berk­shire owns companies ranging from Sees Candy and GEICO Insurance all the way to the Burlington Northern Railroad, all of which operate under about a million different tax and accounting rules...no­t to mention holding that don't control the companies in many others.

3) It's perfectly normal for such a complex company like this to be involved in ongoing disputes with the IRS. There are lots of issues where perfectly honest people can differ as to the tax treatment. When the dust settles, if they owe, they pay, with interest, and perhaps penalties.­..it's quite possible that they could also get refunds...­either way the taxes get paid.

4) While he owns a good deal of the company, he has thousands of stockholde­rs to answer to.

5) He has a fiduciary duty to the thousands of Berkshire Hathaway stockholde­rs to pay what the company is determined to owe, but not a penny more...unl­ess he wants to spend his last years in court being sued for breech of that duty."

Also, it doesn't sound like the IRS has determined what the amount is for the years in dispute. So, given that, how much should he be writing the check out for? or should he just guess?

so we apparently know the problem now, so lets switch our thoughts to where the cuts can be made. dont throw salaries out there or these meaningless little million dollar retreats,
im just curious as to where you would start the cuts Dave, in the other thread i mentioned the post office, in reality its suffering from LOM, lack of money

The post office is actually a very in a very bad possition. The USPS is a govt operation turned somewhat private in the 70's. The govt still dictates what they can charge, and that they serve everyone in the country. Thay had govt employees (complete with govt empolyee attitudes and union) and legacy health care costs. They are still viewed as governmnet so when they want to close an office to save the public complains they are no longer being served. Then came the fax machine and now email, and they have lost a lot of their easiest volume. I would not want to be charged with solving this problem, it may be no win.

damn you pubbys, they went into the red because of the internet, not overspending,
who was it here that had to sell the lake property? did he overspend? no, he lived his life based on his income.....you cant keep blaming, fingerpointing, the economy took a *************** and spiraled out of control and if this was 5 years ago we wouldnt even be talking about it.
i had a motorhome a boat and no worries, not no more, i simply adapted, i didnt go out and overspend, at the time i still lived within my means....thats all

eric lavine wrote: damn you pubbys, they went into the red because of the internet, not overspending, who was it here that had to sell the lake property? did he overspend? no, he lived his life based on his income.....you cant keep blaming, fingerpointing, the economy took a *************** and spiraled out of control and if this was 5 years ago we wouldnt even be talking about it. i had a motorhome a boat and no worries, not no more, i simply adapted, i didnt go out and overspend, at the time i still lived within my means....thats all

Eric, That was me who sold the lake proerty, Still hurts, I bought it based on my income, then my income dropped and my spending was exceeding my income so I had to sell it. point is I made the hard ecision and sold it. I recognised the real problem and cut when it was neccessary, that is all I am asking of my govt.

when you break things down, evil but true, take for instance Korea, Vietnam, the war on terror, A president wishes for conflict because it spurs the economy, it puts people to work, People spend and the viscious cycle continues just like a merry-go-round.......you cant cut, presidents are judged on the employment rate

my conversation started with 4.95 to ship anywhere, and they put the cabash on that, they were full steam forward seeking different avenues to generate income...I merely stated that the lobbyists went to congress and put a stop to the USPS's marketing campaign, once again greed,
why not let the USPS prosper? and UPS suffer? products do have a life cycle, this is a service not a product.....you fcn guys are hardwired for "overspend, overspend, do I think a ups driver should make 28.00 bucks an hour and bennies, no, to me thats overspending but essential.
What if one day, congress said that the UPS driver had to ride a bicycle to deliver his packages, UPS would have to pull back and re-organize.....and you guys would automatically say they are overspending because they have fallen into the red because of they cant get the amount of packages there as they once use to

Eric, I suppose we should be subsidising the candle and buggy whip industries also. The're jobs, so what if technology has rendered them useless. We need a strong economy that creates jobs, not created jobs dragging down our economy.

As for the 4.95 thing, in that case they are the victim of government regulation. That is bad for everyone, and the point I have been trying to make. Regulation is legislators sticking their grubby little fingers into others business trying to get the outcome that benndfits the legislator the most. It always has unintended (or very intended) consequences. That is one of the problems of too much government. It is great that you picked up on that, now just figure out the solution. (Hint, it is not more democrats in office)

Speaking of the USPS....I was getting my morning brainwashing, er, uhm, I mean news, from Fox News, and they had a segment on them. The USPS is in really bad shape right now.

- They are going to default on a $5 Billion dollar payment (I assume previous bailout loan) to the Feds....wait for it....unless Congress "takes action" which I'll bet is a euphamism for another bailout (a bailout of the bailout) Whats next....a bailout of the bailout of the bailout?

- They are considering closing 3700 offices, and the possibilty of laying off 120,000 people despite an agreement with our old friend the union that mandates a "no layoff policy".

- Very high labor costs vs. Fed Ex and UPS. Exerpt from an article I found online....

"Years of the agency making contractual promises to unionized workers have caused the service’s labor cost to soar to 80 percent of total expenses. In comparison, similar private shipment businesses have lower labor costs at 53 percent for United Parcel Service and 32 percent for FedEx."

- The USPS is running at a $9 Billion annual deficeit currently.

- If they were a private entity, they would in essence be close to having to file for Chapter 11.   

Hey, I have a GREAT idea.....Lets have the government run our healthcare system. Great idea!!! Why, I'll bet quality would go way up, and costs would come way down in no time at all. But, the biggest benefit of all would be that the government would have even more power over its minions.

Hail to Dear Leader Obama

eric lavine wrote: lets throw another 120,000 unskilled into the labor force,

Are you saying we have been paying union scale (Over 50 hr when benifits are included ) for unskilled labor? And you claim they did not overspend?

Devalueing to some is right pricing to others, market pricing is an increadably reliable form of price regulation. Construction is down. But my company has found a nich in high end high customer service work. we can charge more than most because of what we have proven we can deliver. Those that cannot are working at rates 50 % or more below us. Many have left the industry because they can not find work. All natural regulating forces. The post office is in decline and either needs to find something else they can do better than anyone else and charge accorrdingly, or they need to price and size labor accordingly. You say the labor is not gualified for much else, that means they have no where elso to go and will stay if their wages are cut. If this is the case then they are getting paid to much. Why should tax payers overpay for something they are hardly using? That is why we are broke.

thats how I started the conversation Dave, Congress shut down the USPS campaign on the "4.95 to ship anywhere in the US" we really are not broke from overspending, we are broke from the lack of jobs in this country,
one must understand that the USPS at the end of the day throws a trillion dollars into the economy, gas, repairs, corner diners, hookers, drug dealers, delivery vehicles, office products, stamp makers. shutting them down not only affects the workers but all the entities that fed off of that trillion dollars.
same identical thing happened here in Cleveland when the mills were shut down, you minus well call Cleveland Chernobyl,
the country is turning into a service country because we no longer have a product to sell, and yes you probably can get top dollar for a service,
in a thriving economy, people must work, you have to keep the cycle going to thrive

OverMyHead wrote: And when so many in the private sector are hurting why should public sector jobs be untouchable? the mone for the public sector comes from the private sector and the private sector could create 2 jobs for the price of every postal employee.

Actually they would probably create 12 because they would outsource their work to China. But who the heck cares about the American worker anyway? Screw them, I only care about me. Me! Me! Me! Oh and of course my corporate profits.

OverMyHead wrote: I dont quite see how someone living in china will get the mail to my front door, but whatever. Acxtually we dont need the guys from china since Al Gore invented the internet we can get mail for free, or at least free until the unions loby the government to tax emails 40 cents a piece so the post office can compete.

I was talking in general terms not specifically the USPS. But yes, the internet was the demise of the postal service.