88 Martinique B/R balance problem |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
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I have two of the boat in the driveway with Tate, and then a bunch of baby squirrel pictures from the tire shop. You'll have to ask my partner for pictures, it's at his house and he spent yesterday cleaning it.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Well, at least he made himself useful for a change!! |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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Congrats- it sounds like you and your "partner" have finally made it official? |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
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Quit hijacking the thread.
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bryanandmissy
Groupie Joined: August-08-2011 Location: Louisville, KY Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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I am confused as to what pictures we are discussing now. Is this more ridicule? By the way any more thoughts on the topic of discussion? |
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Bryan
1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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I think everyone is just goofing around until we see smaller versions of the pictures. It's hard to see what's going on with the big ones. The ridicule is not directed at you.
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bryanandmissy
Groupie Joined: August-08-2011 Location: Louisville, KY Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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I corrected the posts immediately with new pictures. Are you guys still not seeing the corrected posts?
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Bryan
1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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Sorry for the hijack. It seems Hollywood has always "leaned" a certain way, and has formed a new "partnership". That and his newfound Martinique ownership makes him the most qualified to comment in this thread.
By chance are you a big guy? That would be one obvious reason why the boat is listing while underway (with just the driver aboard). I suspect thats probably not the case, but didnt want to ignore the obvious. Your running gear looks fine and I dont think its a contributor to what youre experiencing... at least based on what I can see in the pictures. |
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bryanandmissy
Groupie Joined: August-08-2011 Location: Louisville, KY Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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200 lbs
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Bryan
1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
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bryanandmissy
Groupie Joined: August-08-2011 Location: Louisville, KY Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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Also, After analyzing the situation more closely while taking these pictures, I don't think the new prop helped the problem at all. Everything just runs smoother and better.
So, I am thinking of removing the guide fin closet to the bow and remounting it with the leading edge angled a few degrees towards the starboard side. This, in my feeble mind, would help to correct the arcing turn I experience with the wheel straight, consequently removing the need to turn right to go straight. Any thoughts on doing something so drastic? Are the guide fins mounted into a reenforced part of the boat or is it just the same hull thickness throughout, because I would have to move it 1/2" to 1" to make new holes. |
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Bryan
1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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Ok, I see your resized pictures now. And, I agree, can't see anything wrong.
Not sure if this would matter, but does your rudder have any serious side to side or back and forth play? I don't mean rotational, as it's supposed to rotate, but I mean if you took the bottom and tried to push it forward and back or left to right? I'm not very familiar with the rudder shaving other than it's purpose is to load the wheel a bit for the slalom course. Could an overly agressive modification of the rudder build a lot of turn into it? If the shaving was making the rudder turn left and he had to fight it to the right to make the boat travel straight? Could this cause the lean? |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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Need the engineers to pipe in: It it possible that the rudder could have "lift" the way an airplane wing does? In this case, the lift pushing the bottom of the boat to the left making it tip to the right?
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bryanandmissy
Groupie Joined: August-08-2011 Location: Louisville, KY Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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No. It has no play in it fore, aft or side to side. |
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Bryan
1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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Your fins are straight, do not mess with them. I had a significantly bent fin and it did not affect the steering to the point where it was noticeable. Trust me, you do not want to be filling holes in the hull and drilling new ones.
The "straightness" of the steering wheel is unimportant. That is simply a function of the wheel position when the steering cable was inserted into the helm. It has no bearing on when your boat should track straight. Based on your pictures, I do not believe that you are countersteering to go straight. I believe you should be looking beyond the steering system for your listing issue. It would take more than a subtle bend of the rudder or other running gear in order to introduce that sort of thing... and I dont think thats whats happening here. I would take a straight edge to the hull to see if there is more hook in one side than the other to rule that out... but I would suspect that weight is the culprit here. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Bryan,
I agree with Tim. Keep looking. The weight on one side and the hook in the bottom port side compared to the starboard side are great ideas. |
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bryanandmissy
Groupie Joined: August-08-2011 Location: Louisville, KY Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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Well I am not an engineer but I do fly airplanes and can appreciate your point. I am not sure of the answer, but I think the rudder would be hard pressed to do such a thing as actually lift the boat on port side, if that is what you mean. As long as it is on a vertical plane, the lift created should be on the horizontal plane and creating a lift action horizontally. I do agree that "principal of lift" does play a part in the directional control forces applied to the rear of the boat, and is what Hollywood was getting at when he talked about "lightly filing the starboard side down to reverse the load." But I am wondering if lightly filing the rudder would have enough of an impact? |
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Bryan
1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
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bryanandmissy
Groupie Joined: August-08-2011 Location: Louisville, KY Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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Great points Tim. I will look into the hull.
Are you saying Correct Craft may have sold this boat with a curve in the hull and it has been this way it's whole life? |
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Bryan
1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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Yes, that is what Im saying. With very few exceptions, Correct Craft put "hook" into their fiberglass hulls to dial in their attitude at speed. Starting with the 2001 hull, Ski Nautiques were not "hooked" evenly side to side- this allowed them to run closer to level, taking into account the prop rotation and weight of the driver. Im not sure how your Martinique is supposed to be set up, but its worth inspecting to see if something is out of the ordinary. Buffalo took some good pictures of his '88 Barefoot Nautique that shows how much hook his hull has: |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
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I guess my idea is not a good one. |
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bryanandmissy
Groupie Joined: August-08-2011 Location: Louisville, KY Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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If it is a weight issue, would this be due to my weight. I thought someone said in an earlier post that the driver was included in the design. Is there foam down in the hull and is it possible to have waterlogged foam on the starboard side only?
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Bryan
1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
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bryanandmissy
Groupie Joined: August-08-2011 Location: Louisville, KY Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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Keep them coming Hollywood. I am open for anything. this bugs the crap out of me. Literally! |
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Bryan
1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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Bryan, it sounds like you already compensated for your own weight by putting an equal (or even greater) crew weight on the port side. I think they are more talking about the weight of potentially water logged foam.
My point on the rudder was that it could be causing a side to side "lift" not a vertical, actual lift. The later, tunuable rudders, had a gizmo that let you tune the trailing edge of the rudder to put a little load on the steering wheel. If someone has mussed with the leading edge of middle, who knows what that would do? I agree with checking the hook though. That sounds like the first place to start. |
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bryanandmissy
Groupie Joined: August-08-2011 Location: Louisville, KY Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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Wow! Very good information. I would have never thought to look at this, but will now! I can't imagine being the original owner and accepting such a thing. |
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Bryan
1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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Putting a little bit of load on the rudder so that the steering pulls in one direction (instead of being neutral) is one thing. Suggesting that you can tweak the rudder enough to list the boat over 10 degrees is another. He'd be wrestling with that steering wheel quite a bit trying to keep the hull tracking straight, dont you think? |
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bryanandmissy
Groupie Joined: August-08-2011 Location: Louisville, KY Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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If it is possibly the rudder or because someone altered it, where would I find one?
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Bryan
1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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Bryan, you can get rudders at Skidim, Nautiqueparts, MyCorrectCraftParts probably.
It's a very expensive part to "throw at" the problem though. And unlike the propeller, there wouldn't be any side benefit (like speed, acceleration, smoothness) if it doesn't fix your problem. |
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bryanandmissy
Groupie Joined: August-08-2011 Location: Louisville, KY Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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It looks from the picture that I posted that the TRAILING edge, not the LEADING edge, of the middle (or where the stem of the rudder meets the paddle of the rudder) was filed on the port side, possibly at the manufacture, to create the steering load. |
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Bryan
1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
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bryanandmissy
Groupie Joined: August-08-2011 Location: Louisville, KY Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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Well I will look into it but if it is that expensive I probably will look for another solution. Sounds like the other option of waterlogged foam would be expensive and time consuming also. I just don't see how the foam on one side could hold that much more water than the other and if that was the culprit wouldn't I experience some imbalance while sitting still, which I don't. |
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Bryan
1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
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Go back and read BuffaloBFN's posts. TX_Foilhead and MIskier explain surface area/buoyancy principles in the X-Star thread.
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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I don't have a yellow level.
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