88 Martinique B/R balance problem |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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Is that not your boat? Hmmm... |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Wow!! I guess we need to speak to this guy at waterski magazine. I guess he's not heard about tune able rudders yet!! |
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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You were as close as you can get and still miss. That pic came from the guy who was asking me how much hook my boat had. I could find some of mine but that one makes the point. |
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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The hook does not mean you have an imperfect boat...at least for that reason. As Tim said, they are there on purpose. They set the boat's attitude or you might call it the running angle. I suspect they came along like a major suspension improvment on a sports car. |
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jimsport93
Platinum Member Joined: February-20-2008 Location: Alpharetta Ga Status: Offline Points: 1750 |
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Have we yet ruled out waterlogged foam on the starboard side?
It would be possible for a boat to sit out in the rain, with the plug in and a flat tire on the starboard side of the trailer. Water pooling up on the starboard side and soaking the foam. It does look like a weight distribution issue when under power. The running gear looks fine to me. And the way the boat lists to the right in the one picture suggests heavy weight on that side. It may not be apparent sitting still with the large wetted surface of the hull, but up on plane it may be a different story. Just my thoughts. This is a good one! |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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No, it's one of the things Tim brought up and I confirmed worth looking into. However, I don't really know how to do it. You'd need to weigh each side of the trailer separately. That may be done if you got "real friendly" with your local truck stop operator??? Measuring the spring compression from one side to the other may give you an indicator as well. However, that may be chancy due to old springs!! |
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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What about a spring scale, a bottle jack, and a 4x4-of course with a folded towel for padding?
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Greg, Not a bad idea as long as you can find a scale to handle the load. I understand some state troupers do use portables that they use to weight each axle/dual tire. he needs to get real friendly with a trooper!! |
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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I wondered about the load too. I thought of it because that how I lifted a corner to adjust my stands. And no, my garage floor ain't a bit level.
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bryanandmissy
Groupie Joined: August-08-2011 Location: Louisville, KY Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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I am going to look into getting each wheel on this thing on a separate scale to see if this may be the issue. If it is a waterlogged starboard side, do you guys know that it would be a very obvious difference in weight since most of the water would pool in the lowest part of the hull, concentrating the weight to the center?
And is pulling up the floor the only other way to find out if this is the problem? |
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Bryan
1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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You could peel back some carpet and use a 1" hole saw to investigate. A 2 or 3" might be better after I thought about it. Still easy to refoam and patch.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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jimsport93
Platinum Member Joined: February-20-2008 Location: Alpharetta Ga Status: Offline Points: 1750 |
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Bryan, have you investigated the interior stern of the boat? Pulled seats, floor panels, gas tank. I would think you could get a pretty good idea if there had been a water issue. Delam glass, soggy floor, water line/residue, etc. Might could pull up a piece of carpet in the way back corner and see what it looks like underneath
I am just guessing wet foam could be the culprit. You said that you have to put three people on the port side to balance the ride. Three folks averaging 150 lbs is 450lbs. I think it would be possible to have to compensate that much for wet foam in a boat that size, if the foam were to be soaked on one side. I know it is unlikely, but think it should explored and ruled out. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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Oh you can have that much wet foam in one of these boats... trust me! We took out every bit of 400 lbs out of our BFN. It may have been closer to 600. Our weight was concentrated towards the front, at the lowest point- but not all boats collect water in the same spot. If I remember correctly, Greg's BFN sat with the platform in the water prior to rebuilding- which would imply that his was soaked in back. The v-hulls are built with several ribs running perpendicular to the main stringers, so its possible that water could have found its way underneath, and does not have a path to the center of the boat.
Going down that path is not necessarily something you want to do just yet... I would rule out everything else first! |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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How about putting the boat in the water with no one in it and seeing if it lists to the right? I'm betting the hook is different from side to side.
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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I thought about this a little more. Why not drill a 3/8" hole in the glass and push a sharpened wooden rod in to the bottom glass. Let it sit a while and see what the dipstick reads? Tim, you're right about my once wet foam. It was all wet. Between the dry rotted vent hoses and the boss for the back deck, it never stood a chance. Water was also able to pass between compartments. The ironic part of that story is that there are still a few 'kids' around here who learned on my boat when the P/O had it. Back then, it might not start every day, but it had "the most beautiful wake on Lanier". Several still bitch. I have a 550 sac I've not wanted to use since the rebuild, but I'll lose that vote next year. |
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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My bet was on his running gear, but it looks great. The great CCFan mystery of 2011... |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
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Hang the boat.
Genious. |
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bryanandmissy
Groupie Joined: August-08-2011 Location: Louisville, KY Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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This idea sounds great. However I am ignorant as to what you mean by glass, please explain where exactly you are saying to drill the hole. Also the boat shows no obvious signs of rotten wood in the floor except for a small piece in the center that is aft of the engine cover. It still has the original carpet, seats and upholstery. There was a rotten seat cushion on the bottom of the back sun cushion that I replaced but that was all. Everything else is original. The carpet does not pull up anywhere. There are no smells to speak of and the painted surface in the water collection area is still attached and not peeling or popping off. The swim platform does remain out of the water but I have not measured the water clearance distance from side to side while sitting still. Seems as though I would have to find a very calm day back in a cove and measure that. I know all of this does not for sure tell the story so I plan to follow through with these suggestions to rule them out. By the way, I personally know both of the last two P/Os and this takes this boat back about 10 years. We have all propped open all of the compartments/cubbies including the engine cover during storage to allow them to air out while not in use. So I think this helps to reduce the rot. |
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Bryan
1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
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daddyo
Senior Member Joined: September-09-2008 Location: Austin, TX Status: Offline Points: 114 |
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That's a pretty clean boat. Looks to be the twin of mine, but in much better shape. I've got a little soft spot on the floor just to the left of the motorbox, so I have a pretty good idea what lies underneath. Your running gear appears very straight--better than mine.
Something's making it list under power. I've thought about this and I think that the chines along each side of the hull(I think that's what they are called) may be masking the imbalance until your speed lifts them out of the water. Did any of the P/O's notice it? I haven't had mine out this year due to the low water in Texas unless I count the time I stuck it in the mud right off the ramp, but my recollection is that it tracks straight and level almost to a fault. I'm now second guessing myself after seeing your pictures. Maybe i'm too busy while underway herding cats that I haven't noticed. I think Gregg's (BuffaloBFN) telling you to find a nice concealed spot and drill a hole in the floor. And thanks for the update on the prop. Looks like a 912 is in my future once we get a little rain. I do think either that speedo or tach might be reading low. I read on a supra forum someone using a 913(lh version)on a sunsport and was seeing 35mph at 4200. Maybe the solution to all this is for you to take up wakesurfing and not worry about it |
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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Unless a windshield is the topic, around here glass will mean fiberglass.
As for where to drill the hole, you want to be just outside the secondaries as that will be the deepest part of the foamed compartments. Another good spot would be right behind the battery box, but that spot has other complications. Also, the hoses from your front vents are notorious for being dry rotted. This should be close to what your boat looks like under her panties(Eric's Term ). Look 1 or 2 compartments forward of the vent fitting on the left. |
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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Here's the battery box area. Those dryer hoses on the left were past shot when I opened it up and guess where the water goes...
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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FWIW-My the bottom of my platform sat right on the water. After surgery, she sat up 2.5-3".
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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Clarification please. |
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bryanandmissy
Groupie Joined: August-08-2011 Location: Louisville, KY Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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What if I approached drilling this hole from the water collection area. I mean remove the engine cover and go in from the side just aft of the engine? Then I could sample a few different spots and fill the holes after with non-shrinkable marine caulk. Any thoughts?
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Bryan
1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
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bryanandmissy
Groupie Joined: August-08-2011 Location: Louisville, KY Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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This area is where I am thinking. In the vicinity of my red arrow.
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Bryan
1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
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daddyo
Senior Member Joined: September-09-2008 Location: Austin, TX Status: Offline Points: 114 |
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5 kids in the boat, all 11 and under=herding cats. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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You may want to start looking at some v-hull stringer rebuild threads (like Buffalo's, for instance). That will give you a good idea what your under-floor structure looks like... and will very clearly explain why drilling into the area you propose is a bad idea.
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bryanandmissy
Groupie Joined: August-08-2011 Location: Louisville, KY Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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I did as you suggested and look at Buffalo's thread.
I do understand your concern and point. My plan was to enter towards the top of stringer near the floor and approach the foam from angle of about 20-30 degrees from vertical into the stringer. If I did this as close to the top as possible this would keep the water from entering. The water would have to get half way up the oil pan to get to this height. By filling the hole with marine grade caulk the moisture in the air would be prevented from entering the wood. those were the only two concerns I could draw from reading the thread. Was there something more that I missed and/or do you see anything wrong with this approach? |
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Bryan
1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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In theory, the secondary stringer that youre proposing to drill into does have some structural purpose. The floor would be a better choice. Are you just trying to avoid pulling up some carpet? Either way, I wouldnt be trying to fill a significant void with any sort of sealant... thats not meant to bridge large gaps.
Honestly, there are easier ways to figure out if weight is the problem. HW mentioned hanging the boat by the lifting rings- I think thats an excellent suggestion. I would also be doing the easier things first. Have you checked your hull for hook? |
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