plywood recommend |
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bbishop1974
Senior Member Joined: May-16-2010 Location: rindge,nh Status: Offline Points: 275 |
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Posted: November-22-2011 at 11:49am |
what is the best kind and thickness of plywood recommended in rebuild.i like the cabinet grade 3/4 that greg used due to the # of plys within.i was wondering if that was P.A.[pete approved]due to the glue used or does CPES remedy that issue?Greg if your reading,did you use ply for your extra ribs with extra piece of fir on top for support?hard to tell from pics.if anyone needs doug fir i found it at Bingham Lumber in brookline NH for all the N.E. people.the plan for now is doug fir,no foam,ply floor.thanks
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ny_nautique
Platinum Member Joined: June-01-2011 Location: Albany NY Status: Offline Points: 1215 |
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I believe P.A. is exterior plywood because of the better quality glues that are used. I've seen 1/2" and 3/4" used in these jobs. Considering all of the supports (and foam?) the 1/2" is probably fine.
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- Jeff
1999 Ski Nautique |
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bbishop1974
Senior Member Joined: May-16-2010 Location: rindge,nh Status: Offline Points: 275 |
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thanks for the reply jeff.i know P.A. is exterior grade,but iam pretty sure greg used doug fir ply in his.i was at home depot the other night where they have 3/4 doug fir ply for $26 a sheet vs.$40 a sheet for exterior.the doug fir has 5 or 6 layers per ply and the quality of the wood looks much nicer then the exterior grade which has only 3 layers.pete,where are you?
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7953 |
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We used 5/8 exterior AC fir plywood. I'd think 3/4 would be better for your boat. Fir plywood is far better in quality than regular plywood. I'm surprised HD had that in stock.
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bbishop1974
Senior Member Joined: May-16-2010 Location: rindge,nh Status: Offline Points: 275 |
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seeing the quality side by side makes me want to buy the fir now.just worried about the glue not holding up.this is cabinet grade stuff.
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65 'cuda
Platinum Member Joined: July-12-2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Status: Offline Points: 1091 |
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Are you sure its fir? I've not seen a fir plywood marketed as a cabinet grade. I have seen lots of imported birch plywood at home depot, and other vendors, marketed as cabinet grade. In my experience these imported panels are poorly made with very little glue in the glue lines and are prone to delamination, I've pulled the venner plys apart simply trying to pick up the panel.
Be sure you are buying what you think you are. |
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Tim D
Grand Poobah Joined: August-23-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2641 |
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Make sure it doesn't have a label stapled on the end that says made in china.
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Tim D
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Just stick with the exterior Fir and CPES. Don't worry about what it looks like. It gets covered up anyway!
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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Me Greg? I used fir ply; 3/4" & 1/2". It wasn't cabinet grade exactly. It was a good grade(A-C) of indoor ply. And yes, that's what I used for my extra ribs. |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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Tim, I concur, there might be little kid fingers in the Chinese stuff
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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bbishop1974
Senior Member Joined: May-16-2010 Location: rindge,nh Status: Offline Points: 275 |
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thanks guys.label says made from fir harvested in northwest.i'll look to see where it was actually made.too bad this particular HD is in the city with a not so knowledgable staff.
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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Look for a lumber yard...an old one.
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juniorwoody
Gold Member Joined: August-09-2011 Location: Oak Hill, Fl Status: Offline Points: 937 |
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Just curious here. Why not get a sheet of marine ply?
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bbishop1974
Senior Member Joined: May-16-2010 Location: rindge,nh Status: Offline Points: 275 |
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$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and i work 100 feet away from Home Depot.
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bbishop1974
Senior Member Joined: May-16-2010 Location: rindge,nh Status: Offline Points: 275 |
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several people have mentioned that marine ply is a waste of$$$$
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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I gotted baited into it once, if I remember correctly I had to order it and it was 96.00 a sheet,
I believe they are glued the same as normal, and the difference is the finish...normal plywood is just fine for your intended use, no treated. |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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bbishop1974
Senior Member Joined: May-16-2010 Location: rindge,nh Status: Offline Points: 275 |
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$96 a sheet .not happening
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Jack, You have some reading to do to find out all about plywood. Info can be found here as there are plenty of discussions about it. If you really want to get technical, an internet search will bring up all the specs. It's fine with me if you want to use it but, as mentioned it's just a waste of money! |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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x4, lol
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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juniorwoody
Gold Member Joined: August-09-2011 Location: Oak Hill, Fl Status: Offline Points: 937 |
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I'm having a bit of trouble determining what the intended use is in this instance and I won't even take the bait on the statement that marine ply is a waste of money. Might I also add that there are significant differences between the specs on veneer thickness and grain direction and also no voids in marine ply. Pete's standard reply about doing research on this site is short on fact and strong on supposition that there is any information here to educate one at all on this matter. If the application is for hull material and we're talkin only a sheet or too there is a false saving in cutting the corner. Just the facts.
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bbishop1974
Senior Member Joined: May-16-2010 Location: rindge,nh Status: Offline Points: 275 |
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easy now,pete doesnt want us new guys getting lazy with free answers.i assure all of you i have been researching and taking notes for a year.this site is by far the best resource i have found.greg's rebuild on his BFN used fir plywood which i thought was listed as cabinet grade.my question is regarding the glue.if what i found at $26 a sheet is infact cabinet grade fir can i use it?
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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Sorry about the confusion Brian. Don't get hung up on cabinet grade unless you're building in a galley.
My feeling on ply is that it's a framework for the glass. The glass is where your real strength comes in. I was looking for my fir stringers when I found my fir ply. It was clearly a good product(had been there a while, stacked right, etc) and I remembered that Pete liked fir for adhesion. As it turns out, he was spot on. Once a piece of wood is soaked with CPES and properly buttoned up with glass and epoxy, I figure it'll last as long as I need it to. |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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you would think that attached to the plywood that it would be waterproof, its not, i belive at the time i too did research on marine ply and found out that it was the final finish that was the difference and for its intended purpose, it did not warrant the extra money...i believe it had the name attached and as everything with the label of marine on it....you get twice the money,
but, i will to do some more research Sheldon and get back to you |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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Who's Sheldon, Walowitz?
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bbishop1974
Senior Member Joined: May-16-2010 Location: rindge,nh Status: Offline Points: 275 |
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as always thanks for the replies.greg,i think you got me straightend out.i realize it doesnt have to be pretty.this stuff looks much nicer then the regular 3 ply exterior and its halfthe price.maybe i'll buy a peice this week and post a pic.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Jack, Just the facts: I have stated many times in many posts, the difference between marine and other grades!!! Please note that the application here on CCfan is for no foam flooring and some bulkheads These are NOT structural applications!! Your blatant statement about just going with marine led me to believe you did not know the application and you haven't read many of the stringer job threads. Since you know all the facts about marine grade, you too could have explained why you recommended it. Sorry for the confusion. Greg's statement "ply is a framework for glass" is spot on. |
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juniorwoody
Gold Member Joined: August-09-2011 Location: Oak Hill, Fl Status: Offline Points: 937 |
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Hey Pete, Just saying here that the the deck could be built with 3/8 in. Marine ply for a couple hundred bucks. This would provide a good base for the glass as it is a scaffold which bears some structural responsibilities. Please don't underestimate it's importance.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Jack, I never said the floor doesn't have any structural responsibilities! But, you must understand that a foamed hull only had a layer of glass for it's floor. I feel you are over engineering this ply issue. BTW, you do understand that CC never even used marine grade ply for their ply hull skins don't you?? It was just a good exterior grade of fir if painted and an import mahogany if bright. Hey, how's that stem repair going? We haven't seen any updates lately. And, we always love the pictures! |
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juniorwoody
Gold Member Joined: August-09-2011 Location: Oak Hill, Fl Status: Offline Points: 937 |
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The original foam backed up the glass cloth. in it's absence the ply will take over the support it offered. therefore it needs strength and longevity. I'll let this one rest for now I promise.
I have a hankering to get back to work on the stem but life gets complicated at times. Mama needed a new kitchen and then there's that little cottage in Florida that beacons this time of year. don' fear Pete, I will return to the utility soon and there will be pics. Need to dust off the topic. |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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Greg, Sheldon, Leonard and the guy's.....nice catch
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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