1984 2001 rebuild. Pete, go away. |
Post Reply | Page 123> |
Author | ||
Maximal691
Senior Member Joined: July-26-2011 Location: Saratoga ny Status: Offline Points: 109 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: December-13-2011 at 8:02pm |
|
OK guys, Im redoing my 84 2001 this winter and I figured I would start documenting it here. First things, I am not looking to restore this boat to factory specs. Im not replacing every manufactures decal, the exact factory carpet, or finding the forest that the wood came from for the original stringers. The objective of this build is to have a boat that will be dead reliable and slightly more modern. If you are looking for a factory restore this is not the post for you. If you appreciate the benefits of modern materials and slightly more modern asthetics then you may find this interesting.
TL, DR,: Im redoing my boat this winter, not to original specs. I first bought the boat over the summer, it "needed some engine work", which in northern Pennsylvania means "bad engine". I pulled it out and its dissasembled in my friends garage, Im currently looking for a new one. The floors were completely de-laminated the entire observer side of the hull, and partialy de-laminated along the drivers side. I tore out the floor, which Im not going to bother posting pictures of because theres hundreds of pictures and write ups on here of how to do it. The plan right now for stringers is, seacast main stringers, trex secondaries with ribs coming off those, and 5/8 plywood decking attatched with stainless hardware. I have put a lot of time and thought into this route V.S. the traditional douglas fir/foam floor method and I feel that this will provide a more solid floor and will last forever. Price wise it will be around the same as doing wood and a glass floor. More money for the sea cast, but less money for the floor its self. This is all the time I have now, I have class right now but I'll try to post some pictures of the boat tonight. Max |
||
Fl Inboards
Grand Poobah Joined: January-20-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2099 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Max Glad to see ya steppin up and doing it your way! After all it is your time and money and in the short haul it is going to be a learning experience. take your time measure twice! Just do it!
|
||
Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.
1993 Shamrock "fat" 20. 2008 Nautique 196 5.0 |
||
JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Its always a fun project. The sea cast will work ok although heavy and expensive, but trex.. as in plastic decking trex? It wont stick to nothing with standard glass resins. You could score the heck out of it and attach it to floor with a high end adhesive but it is not the cheapest stuff out there, not real stable and not real light or strong. I dont see it adding to the strength of the hull any just... maybe being able to hold up the floor? If you are not planning to glass in the floor consider using pressure treated.. it will last longer, if you are going to cpes and glass then ignore that .
|
||
DrCC
Grand Poobah Joined: April-12-2004 Location: at home Status: Offline Points: 2867 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Good idea. No nasty, greasy bilge photos with assorted foam chunks.
|
||
kapla
Grand Poobah Joined: March-27-2008 Location: BA, Argentina Status: Offline Points: 6148 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
|
||
<a href="">1992 ski nautique
|
||
Maximal691
Senior Member Joined: July-26-2011 Location: Saratoga ny Status: Offline Points: 109 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Joe,
The trex will adhere to the hull, and i'm glassing over the trex with epoxy resin as well. The benefit of the trex is I can screw into it and not worry about water seeping into the screw holes and rotting it out. Weight is not a huge concern as I will be wake boarding behind it. I doubt it will weigh much more than a boat with saturated foam and rotting stringers once completed. |
||
Maximal691
Senior Member Joined: July-26-2011 Location: Saratoga ny Status: Offline Points: 109 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Trex adhesion test. http://www.westsystem.com/ss/gluing-plastic-dimensional-lumber/
|
||
JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Have you tried using epoxy resin on trex? I am highly doubtful it will adhere in any meaningful way. How about you send me a chunk of trex and I send you a chunk of coosa and we run a few tests over the weekend for scientific purposes?
|
||
Maximal691
Senior Member Joined: July-26-2011 Location: Saratoga ny Status: Offline Points: 109 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
The intro post I made was a bit rushed, its the week before finals so I've been a bit burnt out. So here are the parts that I forgot to mention.
Goals are in this order, Complete the floors over winter break. Re-carpet with black carpet. Drop in a replacement engine, which I am very close to locating. Buff out the hull, gel is in great condition, just needs to be brightened up. Install audio, which will consist of two 10" subs in the nose of the boat (already have), 4 6.5's on the sides and 2 6.5's on the tower which I already have. Im running without a deck, just a line in for an ipod straight to the amp. I bought an atlantic tower, which im taking a 12" section out of the middle to narrow it up to fit the hull, then having a buddy TIG it back in place for me. Once Im done with all of that, it should be spring, and I should be broke. |
||
Maximal691
Senior Member Joined: July-26-2011 Location: Saratoga ny Status: Offline Points: 109 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Joe I can try it when I get the materials from us composites, or I can drop you off a piece Thursday on my way to Rochester. I dont have any epoxy resin here, just some scrap pieces of trex.
|
||
JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I am about 10 miles of rt 90 at the weeds port exit. I have some Coosa straps and more resins and glass supplies around than I care to admit so just a little trex would do it. If you are goin to be close you should drop by... I have been where you are going a time or two
|
||
DrCC
Grand Poobah Joined: April-12-2004 Location: at home Status: Offline Points: 2867 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I too like the Deckless Ipod idea.
|
||
Dreaming
Platinum Member Joined: May-21-2010 Location: Tacoma, WA Status: Offline Points: 1870 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Max - I would be concerned about the strenght of trex. I have built a deck or two out of it, and it requires structure every 16-24 inches to not sag with heat/ and be properly supported. I realize what you are trying to do, but would caution you that after you do your sticky test with Joe, you may want to look into actual breaking strengths and such. Also, Trex will not provide you with much rigidity, so that may be an issue with causing the hull to flex and cracking gel? a 15' stick of 2x6 trex will touch the ground on both ends when you put the middle on a 6' ladder. (looks like a rainbow) I am interested to hear the results though... I am all for making the boat practical, just would hate for something to go wrong in the process.
|
||
Fl Inboards
Grand Poobah Joined: January-20-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2099 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Another thumbs up on the Coosa! It is Fiberglass, just wont hold a screw, Blue water level and you don't have to glass it in.
|
||
Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.
1993 Shamrock "fat" 20. 2008 Nautique 196 5.0 |
||
Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Here is one thing to think about it's in their faq section-
Q: Why isn't Trex® structural? A: Trex has made a market decision to offer a product that will provide the customer with a superior walking surface, guardrail system, fencing and trim. Might be worth it to email them and see what they think,it is a pvc product not sure an epoxy would stick. |
||
davidg
Grand Poobah Joined: January-07-2008 Location: NW Chicagoland Status: Offline Points: 2239 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Trex is basically recycled grocery bags and scrap wood dust blended together and I am sure loaded up with UV stabilizers. Grocery bags are made of polyethylene. So, I would be extremely concerned about the overall strength of the Trex for a boat hull component, especially the stringers. Polyethylene is a very low end material. Not much structrual integrity at all. I'd hate to see you do all that work, and spend the money, and then be disappointed after you got it all back together.
I do admire your willingness to experiment with it and learn about it before you start installing it. |
||
Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I thought it said pvc somewhere on it's web site Dave but now can't find it,who am I to doubt a plastics guy
|
||
OverMyHead
Grand Poobah Joined: March-14-2008 Location: MN Status: Offline Points: 4861 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Welcome to boat ownership! |
||
For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats.
1987 Ski Nautique |
||
davidg
Grand Poobah Joined: January-07-2008 Location: NW Chicagoland Status: Offline Points: 2239 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Gary....I thought it might be PVC as well, but I read a Trex rep's web post that indicated bag material. PVC may make more sense since it has much better UV stability, but, either way....low end materials. Bags are probably much more plentiful from a supply stanpoint.
Post I read.... Trex is one of the largest plastic bag recyclers in the U.S. 3.1 billion recycled grocery bags were collected for use to manufacture Trex products in 2010. |
||
Jllogan
Platinum Member Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Found some wind testing on trex fencing even a video! It really bends, but that is under 75 mph winds. Not sure how that would compare to a load test of say a person standing on it.
|
||
Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
That would not affect almost all of us except Joe |
||
Maximal691
Senior Member Joined: July-26-2011 Location: Saratoga ny Status: Offline Points: 109 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
As far as the trex, yes, it is very weak when set horizontally, which you will find pine 1x6 is pretty weak horizontally too. I think once its vertical, adhered to the hull, and glassed in with ribs 16" o.c. with 5/8" ply on top it should be good. I have no gel coat cracks now on a boat that I can pull the secondaries out by hand. Who knows, maybe I'll end up doing again, but I feel pretty confident in this set up.
Overmyhead, German cars and motorcycles already bleed me dry, I'm used to it. Joe, I can make the stop, I'll pm you and we can make some plans. |
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Plus 1 on the "Trex" adhesion and strength. Go for it but sorry you're on your own. Think about this, why are adhesive containers made of polyethylene?
|
||
eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
i thought poly's contained petroleum?
|
||
"the things you own will start to own you"
|
||
65 'cuda
Platinum Member Joined: July-12-2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Status: Offline Points: 1091 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
No trex, period.
|
||
TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
You can get a 1/2" thick 4x8 sheet of coosa or Airex (similar stuff) for $150-200. That would be enough to make the secondaries and a whole lot more. 2 sheets would be enough to do all the stringers and you could skip the Seacast. 3 Sheets would be enough for the stringers and front floor- which is all you'd need if you re-foam the boat.... and you'd never have to worry about rot.
Thinking outside the box can be a great thing- but failing to take advantage of the knowledge that others have acquired, who have been down the same path that youre just embarking on, seems a little bit silly! |
||
Jllogan
Platinum Member Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Maximal,
I hope you dont take any of these suggestions the wrong way. I know you havent been around the site real long (long enough to get how it works) but the only reason people suggest stuff is because they care about the success of your project. No one wants to let you down by giving bad advice and I know that is why pete corrects people sometimes. If you decide to go with the trex it is your decision and I am not even saying you are wrong, you know, you did the research and its your boat. I know most everyone on here feels the same way. So just keep that in mind as people make suggestions or try to reccomend other routes, everyone wants you to be happy with your final project and not regret anything or cost yourself more time or money. Also, where are the pictures of your boat!!?? Any concept art?!? |
||
JMurph
Gold Member Joined: January-06-2006 Location: Maryland/NC Status: Offline Points: 738 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Max, I'm not an engineer, but I've seen at least three good engineers post in this thread and maybe others. (Maybe that's what your finals are in as well, but these engineers posting in this thread have more engineering experience than almost all of other engineers I know. They guys actually do a lot of work.) Definitely go by and see what Joe has done and listen to what he has to say. He is a great resource if you have the patience to still consider other methods. I do admire you willingness to make the boat your own. It doesn't have to be put back into it's original form. You will be so happy if you take the time to be diligent in your work and make the boat into something that will last you for years on end. Good luck with finals!!!!! Yuck. |
||
TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I'll echo this sentiment... Joe is the most knowledgeable person I know of on this topic. He's a fantastic engineer, and has rebuilt more boats using various methods than most (if not all) who contribute here. |
||
Randy_in_Ohio
Platinum Member Joined: September-13-2006 Location: N. Canton, OH. Status: Offline Points: 1891 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
+1 I'm not even an engineer and I think I would be hesitant to use a material created from recycled grocery bags and saw dust in a boat's structural system. |
||
Post Reply | Page 123> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |