Tow capacity help...

M3Fan wrote: NCH20SKIER wrote: I used to tow my 83 with a V6 explorer which probably has a similar power plant - never an issue pulling out of the lake always used 1st gear (automatic trans). Slow to get up to speed from the lights and stops were planned / anticipated in advance From a stop, the car is going to use 1st whether it's in D or 1.

Yes it will be in 1st, but with many transmissions, the advantage to using 1 or L instead of D when pulling up the ramp is the reverse band is applied for extra holding power.

4x4's towing weight is usually lower because the of the added weight of the 4wd,gross vehicle weight I think is the same.Automatics help pull because of the torque mulitplication of the converter.

Tim D wrote: I've seen Rangers spin trying to pull a Ski Tique out. Not enough weight over the rear wheels.

All the time. Not sure why the Ranger would be any worse than light trucks from Chevy, Toyota, or Nissan, but it sure seems like the Ranger
is the worst for spinning the rear wheels.

BKH

bkhallpass wrote: oledb4 wrote: OverMyHead wrote: My above mentioned Dakota is a manual. I have not had any issues with towing. It is the reason I always use 4 low. Rather than work the clutch in difficult situations I can let it out and creep along with plenty of time for fine steering adjustments. It has never stalled in 4 low no mater how bad my teenager might dump the clutch. A side issue is cell phone use. I loved driving my 88 accord with a manual, then my next vehicle was an automatic. After replacing the tranny on that one I though I would go back to a clutch when I bought the 2000 year vehicle new. In the interim cell phones became common place and although I would not advocate driving and using a cell I admit at times I answer it, and adding that in with steering and shifting is a bad deal. I read the tow cap on an '03 3.0 v6 ranger 4x4 manual was around 3200...I believe boat+trailer weight is above that...would the 4x4 make up for the difference?? or how does all that work?? A 4X4 is typically rated with a lower towing capacity than a rear wheel drive 4X2 of the same model. In terms of towing the only thing a 4X4 does for you is offer 4 wheels powered at the ramp. I have tow 4X4s and have never put either into 4wd to get a boat out at the ramp (they are heavy vehicles). BKH

do you know why 4x4 has lower towing capacity?? And, not to be a prick, but I understand that a 4x4 offers you 4 wheels powered at the ramp, but how do you think a 4x4 manual transmission would handle pulling boat out of luanch?? especially considering the boat is either at, or most likely above, the towing capacity

Traction is the name of the game at the ramp. It really takes very little power. Many marinas use small jeeps or tractors just to pull the boats out of water and pull around the yard at 4 or 5 miles per hour.

I had a friend who used to pull his 17 foot Bayliner out of the water with a Ford Escort. Sometimes, on a slick ramp, three or four of us would have to sit on the back of the car to get traction. The little four cylinder had no problem pulling the boat out of the water. It was all about traction. The Europeans use very small cars all the time.

Obviously, 4 wheel drive can assist with traction. Presumably, the front wheels never get down into the water, or onto the slick part of the ramp. I'm no expert, but if I were going to have a manual transmission, I'd rather have the 4 wheel than the two wheel drive. This is only because when the tires start spinning most people just keep trying and smoke the clutch. At least with the 4 wheel, the front wheels should pull not break loose . If all 4 are spinning, you really have a problem like the video posted above of the guys trying to launch in the ocean. I see no advantage in a manual transmission when it comes to towing a recreational ski boat.

Once out on the highway, different story than on the ramp. First, there is the matter of stopping. It's pretty simple - smaller cars have a harder time stopping big boats than do bigger cars. You can augment your stopping capability with trailer brakes, and some cars have bigger/better brakes than others. There is still nothing like weight to slow down a moving boat. Also in high winds, smaller cars will get whipped a lot easier than bigger cars. If you are only towing a few miles, and don't need to go fast, then perhaps this is not an issue.

Then, you have the matter of the transmission. Even if the engine can pull the boat down the road at 50 or 60 miles and hour, the transmission on a small car is probably going to be working hard. You can ease the pain on the transmission by installing a transmission cooler. But, again, big beefy transmissions, with big beefy parts are better for towing than small transmissions. It just is, what it is. If you tow only a few miles, on flat terrain, that may not be an issue either.

Engines are similar. Lots of engines will do the job. How hard they have to work, and how long they will last doing that job is another story.

In terms of tow rating, you also have to consider the suspension. The car may have plenty of power, but if the ass end of the car is dragging, you're going to have a bad tow experience. Again, you can build up the suspension, or add air shocks or other lifting devices.

At some point you have to ask, is it worth it? By the time you buy a light duty truck and beef everything up, you could have bought a hell of a lot of gas.

So you see, you ask a simple question, with dozens of possible answers. How much is enough truck? depends up on your tow terrain, launch ramp, experience, skills, budget, appetite for repairs, etc. etc. etc.

When I bought my first Ski Nautique, I was commuting 160 miles per day, and needed a new car. I could not afford two new cars, and couldn't afford to drive a 13 mpg truck back and forth. So, the answer was a new Honda Accord, and $500 68 Ford pickup. That pickup was my primary tow vehicle for over 4 years (and the primary dump vehicle for every one of my neighbors). Was ugly, but it towed just fine.

BKH

The advantage to the manual tranny is control, sure you have to know how to use it but it allows you to get everything out of the tow vehicle. I'm sure its an aquired taste, but I've done it with trucks up to 2 1/2 tons and I'll take the manual everytime its offered. I found the 2nd gear launches up the ramp in 4 lo to be perfect, one foot on the brake the other on the clutch and I didn't have to touch the gas until it was moving. 1st was too much and caused wheel spin and bouncing and 3rd bogged momentarily.

I don't know if first on an auto causes anything different to happen, I always use 2 which I've heard Ford designed for towing on slippery surfaces. I don't know, but it works and doesn't spin at my ramp.

malibud wrote: So i am no expert but from experience you are better off with a manual tranny . 1. I have burned up 2 tturbo 350 trans towing in the mountains. 2. In a pinch you can always down shift to slow down. 3. If autos were better wouldn't the semi trucks be using them... Just my 2 cents...

Semi trucks have been using them for years, but they are expensive and not popular with fleet operators for that reason.

DENTON, Texas (September 9, 2004) – Drivetrain combinations of Allison automatic transmissions and all heavy-duty Cummins and Caterpillar engines are now available Peterbilt Motors Company recently announced.

“The new combinations provide customers with a greater range of horsepower and torque ratings with the fuel efficiency and operating convenience of an automatic transmission,” says Bruce Ewald, Peterbilt Assistant General Manager of Sales and Marketing. “Increasingly, customers from both vocational and over-the-road markets are spec’ing automatic transmissions, and this expanded lineup of compatible engine options will hold even greater appeal.”



3.? If tug boats pull the hardest, wouldn't they be the perfect ski boats?

I'm just having fun. I like manual trans for towing, but it's not for everyone.

Very interesting on the tranny. but with a small truck wouldn,t the tranny burn up quicker with and auto than a stick... I think the tug boat would have a terrible wake and not enough cup holders...

malibud wrote: I think the tug boat would have a terrible wake and not enough cup holders...

Yeah, but look at that tower!!

malibud wrote: So i am no expert but from experience you are better off with a manual tranny . 1. I have burned up 2 tturbo 350 trans towing in the mountains. 2. In a pinch you can always down shift to slow down. 3. If autos were better wouldn't the semi trucks be using them... Just my 2 cents...

1. There has GOT to be more to that story.

2. You can do that in an auto as well. I have a "3", "2", and a "1" in my truck.

3. I drive a 60K+ pound fire trucks with an auto. All of our appratus have autos. These are beefy transmissions (usually Allisons). With todays technology, I wouldn't say manuals are any better than autos.

8122pbrainard wrote: quik225 wrote: Yes it will be in 1st, but with many transmissions, the advantage to using 1 or L instead of D when pulling up the ramp is the reverse band is applied for extra holding power. Cecil, Could you expound on this statement? I'm not sure what you mean.

When the shifter is in D and the trans is in 1st, there's a sprag (a one way mech clutch) that keeps the low gear hyd clutch housing from spinning. The sprag can be damaged while in 1st if the power is not steady. On and off the throttle can shock the sprag till it fails. When the shifter is in 1 or L, the reverse band applies around the low hyd clutch housing, holding it, so shock loads will not have to absorbed by the sprag.

That's pretty good service for that truck Overhead. MN winters are tough on vehicles. Salt for the body and serious cold for the engine & drivetrain. Add in a lot of towing and a young driver and you did very well!

I wouldn't go with a 2WD light vehicle, you'll get stuck at a ramp sooner or later. I'm not arguing with those who've had success retrieving boats with 2WD and posi, I just have been on some very steep ramps (Lake Champlain at Burlington comes to mind) that, once wet, make a lot of vehicles struggle, even some 4WD.

I'm now driving a Jeep Liberty diesel. Tow rating is 5,000 lbs., and I've towed my Sport and a few other boats around 4,000 lbs., maybe a bit more with gear. It tows 4,000 lbs. very easily, not a problem holding any speed, climbing any hill I've found so far. At the ramp, or in sand (I launch on our local lake from my yard) you can put it in 4WD low and it will walk up with barely any throttle.

I'm not saying this Jeep will take the place of a 3/4 ton pickup, but if you want a somewhat lighter, smaller SUV that can tow really well and get 28-30 mpg on the highway (not towing), you can't beat one of these.

I'd find it hard to make any argument in favor of a manual tranny for towing, the only exception is holding speed on a downgrade.

63 Skier, your namesake boat is fantastic. The photo of the young girl in front of it on your diary is priceless.
About the Liberty, that is seriously good mileage. It is easy to find the EPA ratings, but it is always good to hear from an owner. How is the mileage around town? Also, has it had any cold weather starting problems? It is not uncommon for the temp to be -25 at the cottage in northern Wisconsin. I have a ramp on the property, but its sand and the Ion will barely drive on sand without a trailer. My wife''s Escape has no problem with 4wd, but she's not always there. We were thinking of buying her a new Escape, but maybe we should take a look at one of these as well. She liked her Grand Cherokee we traded on the Escape, but the trans went at 60,000, and it was a real pig on gas. We never really towed with it except a few miles to the ramp a few times either. Maybe that new trans is much better. Her trans was a 42RE with a tow package (trans cooler).

Personally, I need 4wd where I launch and store the boat- and I never have to worry about encountering a rough or steep ramp. If you know where youre going to be launching all the time and can get away with 2wd, then thats a different story.

BTW, anyone who has a true 4x4 system and doesnt pull the boat up the ramp in 4Lo doesnt know what theyre missing! Way easier on the driver and the vehicle.

As far as the Ranger goes, it will do just fine for short tows. Dad used an original ('91, 4.0L) Explorer for years. My buddy towed his 3000 lb Shamrock short distances with his 4.0L 4x4 Ranger with the 5sp manual and it did ok. The 3500 lb tow rating on that truck is lower because of the manual tranny for some reason- it must be the weak point, as the same truck with the 4sp auto is rated for 5000 lb.