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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlassSeeker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2012 at 3:32am
I would say the basis of the problem can be found in this document from Georgetown. Pretty interesting stuff in here. I'm thinkin it's about page 23,24 but I haven't read the whole thing.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2012 at 9:09am
I can say all of the tulips popped outside Joe, in February???
im curious and this is for the guy's on the far right, with the healthcare debate, ive read a thousand reasons why people shouldnt have HC, my question is, What and who deserves healthcare, it seems to me that HC has been a problem (and it is a very big issue) and Obama finally took it under his wing....so....what exaclty are your thoughts on what should be done with HC in this country.....take your time and explain, and please everyone give these guy's a little bit of time to answer and dont clog the thread
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2012 at 9:11am
BTW, the answer should not include, what shouldnt be done in the current administration, you guy's tend to stray
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2012 at 9:38am
If I have the right to have my transmission repaired, does that mean I'm entitled to a portion of a transmission guy's life?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2012 at 9:47am
cloggggggggggg....solution Greg solution, not rightyganda
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2012 at 9:48am
It's just a question. Answer got your tongue?   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2012 at 10:00am
ahhhhh the old "answer a question with a question trick"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote harddock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2012 at 11:52am
So let me get this straight. If your a worker at Wally mart or McD's and they don't have to pay your insurance that's ok, but if you choose to go a school that has insurance that doesn't have birth control included it is policy because of religious reasons it is a catastrophy.

But seeing that you now want to just key in on the speech, and just this case. If Georgetown decided to all of a sudden pull bc from the policy then they should make Georgetown include birth control for this years premiums and allow a credit and or an option so a student or employee cn get insurance from another source. ( I'll admit that I don not full know the policy and proceedure @ Georgetown)

If they took away a benefit shame on them, if they didn't offer it and didn't give you an option to get it elsewhere shame on them. If their policy doesn't cover bc and you neglected to read that part shame on you.


and thanks for adding all the global warming Al Gore facts, they really set me straight on this speech and the whole birth control issue.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peter1234 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2012 at 12:06pm
I think gass seeker doesnt get the whole catholic religion doesnt approve of birth control thing.(even if it is to cover the 3? % of the women who need it for 2 reasons .   it is as usual there are blinders on people from both sides . I for one was raised catholic. believed in birth control. did believe in abortion . upon the loss of my son at 14 . it changed my views for the rest of my life. it also made me more intolerant of ignorance and you glass seeker could take a lesson from some of the dems on here and try to not look so defiant preaching over and over about something so trivial. that girl should have known a catholic school wouldnt approve of her birth control...end of story
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davidg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2012 at 12:09pm
Whether its the fact that Ms. Fluke isn't happy that G-T doesn't offer it on their insurance policy (and since when do college's offer insurance policies for students healthcare or anything else??), or whether the Gvrmt, or insurance company do or don't offer insurance.....the bottom line is....she wants her BC paid for! She does not want to pay for it herself!!! Am I correct on this?

So, if the school, insurance company, or Gvrmt doesn't cover it......For God Sakes Ms. Fluke, just go buy it at the local Walmart or Walgreens. What is so friggin' hard about that??? Why does everything humans need have to be covered by some program??

This whole issue was brought up by the left to be a highly charged political issue to benefit the left.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OverMyHead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2012 at 12:38pm
Originally posted by Hansel Hansel wrote:

Hi Dave,


Personally I would like to see...

Liberty to live as you see fit within good reason,
Healthcare for everybody who needs or wants it,
Education for everybody who needs or wants it,
A sustainable and clean environment,
Safety of your person at home, work, or abroad,
As many people contributing their personal skills to the greater good as possible, and
a civil society that works together for the betterment of mankind.

"Whoa!" you say. "That is a pipe dream!" I'd probably have to agree with you but I'm just old enough to know that and still young enough to believe it is worth fighting for.

Best!


Jamin, no one can argue that this a a bad vision, that is why it is so easy to sell and so many people buy into it. the problem is it does not take into account basic human behavior and group dynamics. For this reason this model has been tried and outright failed or failed to prosper all over the world.

Let me give you a simple scenario of human nature. Being from the Midwest I am sure you have seen a car stuck in the snow being pushed by a group of people. I have observed this multiple times and find the behavior very consistent. Lets take a church group of 10 people plus a driver are piling into a van to go to the Amy Grant concert. The parking lot is not plowed and they have to go 100 feet to the street through a ten inch snow falland the van tires just spin. the driver (the president?) orders everyone out to push, and he is going to steer us through this. Everybody gets out and one or two guys automatically lean there shoulders into the van and start to push, the driver spins his wheels,, and the van goes nowhere, so others start to join in until finally 8 of the ten are pushing and the van starts to go. you notice two never got involved. one says he has a bad aback and the other came totally unprepared in high heals but is totally willing to do that rolling arm motion and say push harder. . As the van starts to move two more people will immediately stop pushing assuming that the job is accomplished as the van moves slowly forward. Another get dumped on with smow from the driver spinning the wheels and says this is not worth it, now six are pushing and the van gathers speed. As it travels faster more drop out satisfied with the progress till the first two guys are the only ones left and the van slows and then stops 25 feet from where it started and the whole thing repeats. the group moves forward, now seven of the eight restart the process, the one that got slushed stays out. this cycle repeats until the van gets out of the lot. End result two people performed most of the work others helped out when they had two , and a few did nothing but still fully feel they deserve a ride to the concert. In the ultimate act no respect one of the non pushers on the way to the concert will say now I am going to miss the start , we should have pushed faster. That is human nature and that is why socialism never works.

There are also two types of drivers. one will open the door and push until he has to hop in and steer, the other stays in the heated dry drivers seat until it is time to do his part. Who do think we we have driving?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2012 at 2:31pm
like i said, take your time
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlassSeeker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2012 at 3:10pm
OK just concentrate on Erics question. You're just beating the same old drum on the BC issue and so I still say if you don't bleed you can have no say-ask your wives and GF's. It's a healthcare issue for women. You gave no reason that it is excluded...except religion. You failed to grasp what she said in the speech.

So concentrate on Erics question now. Healthcare? what should be done?
(besides lowering gas prices!)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OverMyHead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2012 at 3:54pm
Originally posted by GlassSeeker GlassSeeker wrote:

y if you don't bleed you can have no say-ask your wives and GF's. It's a healthcare issue for women.



Yes everyone, Andy made up a rule so the debate is over.....not. Your assumption is that only a women who is having her birth control subsidized is effected. What about all those being asked to pay the subsidy? We have no say? I suppose only welfare recipients should have input on welfare. This is not a pap smear or a mammogram, this is recreational medicine, more in the category of a nose job or liposuction. There is maybe a stronger argument from a disease control standpoint for condoms, but free? I pay a copay for my tetanus and flu shot. Why the double standard?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OverMyHead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2012 at 3:58pm
Eric, to answer your question, interstate competition, tort control, and stop mandating that every plan cover every thing. Let the consumers decide and pay for what they want or need. There, no more waiting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davidg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2012 at 4:08pm
Here is an interesting aricle on Sandra Fluke, the poor little coed. Seems like she is really a 30 year old political activist for "Reproductive Justice". So, there is more than meets the eye going on here.

As for healthcare, I am all for high quality healthcare for all, just not government run healthcare. The government has not shown a great track record at running anything efficiently.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2012 at 4:22pm
David, great link and story about Sandra Fluke. It will be interesting to see where that goes next week. As far as George Steponopoolos goes, he's no different than Rush Limbaugh, except he's portrayed as an objective journalist, which is a crock. There's a wicked double standard toward the Dem side when it comes to the media and that is just the way it is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OverMyHead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2012 at 4:24pm
So after all of Andy's pious ranting on my source and credibility he sites testimony from a 30 yo democrat plant claiming to be a 23 year old student? Shame on you Andy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peter1234 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2012 at 4:31pm
i find it hard to believe there is more to the story........
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davidg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2012 at 4:43pm
Yeah, I spent all of about a minute uncovering that information. I first looked on CNN, but, they don't have much of anything. Checked MSNBC....nope, not there. Checked the Huffington Puffington Post...nada!

Maybe George Stepanpooploose and the "accomplished media" are busy with other things.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlassSeeker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2012 at 5:23pm
Great link to a non biased report ever hear of misogyny...no it's not someone who rubs your back. How about if the Catholic church required them all to cover their faces..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2012 at 5:36pm
Who cares if the web site is biased? Is the report true? Is it possible she's not some inocent coed that is speaking her mind, but a seasoned activist? Why are you slammingthe Catholic Church? Are they wrong for speaking out against being forced to do something that goes against their morals?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dochockey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2012 at 5:41pm
Gas is 3.99 now in Michigan and is going to hit the $5 mark this summer according to the the radio in my truck. Tell me again why its jumping so fast? Will a volt be able to pull my cargo trailer, pop up, pontoon, my flatbed, and of course my cc ?    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davidg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2012 at 5:45pm
Originally posted by GlassSeeker GlassSeeker wrote:

Great link to a non biased report ever hear of misogyny...no it's not someone who rubs your back. How about if the Catholic church required them all to cover their faces..


Like I said, I couldn't find it on any of the unbiased, professional news outlets such as MSNBC, NY Times, etc, etc.

Either they aren't as unbiased as you may think, or, they are just flat out incompetent. Its got to be one of the two....or both. This aspect to the story definitely does not fit the Obama/Elite Media narrative does it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2012 at 5:47pm
I drove through a town yesterday and it was $3.85 in the morning and $3.93 in the afternoon. When it's hit the $4.00 mark in the past that has been when the economy around here has come to a holt. If it's $5 by summer, it's going to be a quite tourist season and the lake will be dead. If the govenment subsidizes the Volt to about $15K, I'll buy one!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hansel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2012 at 6:30pm
Dave, your constant focus on misanthropy makes it rather difficult to discuss solutions. Your example of the van is such a simple abstraction of the complexities of society that it cannot be a useful model.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote must_dash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2012 at 7:00pm
Here in Italy gas has gone up by nearly 30% in the last 9 months and is now around $6.80 a gallon. Diesel is about the same.
I run my boat on Propane about $3.05.
The US still has cheap fuel compared to the rest of the world.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OverMyHead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2012 at 7:02pm
Jamin, I find the best way to solve a large problem is to break it into smaller ones, and if something does not work at a micro level, chances are it will be a million times worse when multiplied times a million to a macro level. To solve the large problem you have to understand it first in individuals, second in a small group then to a societal level. To say we all need to be equal does not address the issues that keep us from being just that, and offers no real solution either, just a grand vision.

The point of the analogy is that inequity is always a problem whether on the reward side or the contribution side. A socialist dream could work only if you have everyone 100 % dedicated to it, but that is not human nature. We are all created with different drives and abilities. Some drives are ingrained and some are achieved though external motivation. The point is people are programed to work for reward. When you reward people with an even share for a lesser contribution you create people who contribute less, when you give people an even share that have contributed more, you teach them to contribute less, so in the end you end up with less as a whole. You cannot lift anything up by dragging part of it down. If you fail to apply these basic principles to the "solution" it will fail.

The other factor I left out of the simplified example is power and corruption. a socialist system needs large central control which means power. Anytime you create such a system you get the powerful siphoning off what should be shared by everyone.

These problems must be solved BEFORE any such system is created or it is doomed to failure. Figure them out and then we can talk.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skicat2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2012 at 7:10pm
Well this story stinks to high heavan. It another one of Obama socialist agenda. If you cant see it then you have problems.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skicat2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2012 at 7:12pm
If somebody say they want to live like Greece.. Fking good writtens, go live in a broke goverment, people fighting over ther liberty and freedom. Go for it
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