Gas prices

eric lavine wrote: designed to and what they actually do are two different animals, *************** always rolls down hill, its double edged, and I told myself i will never work for a union because i dont like to work besides a lazy knucklehead with a big union mouth that makes the same wage, dont get me wrong, in a workforce there are the guys that work their ass of and there are guys that use the union to their advantage

Eric, again you are showing that you live your life as a conservative, but are trapped in a liberal political mindset, Unions are big government socialism for the work place, and you eloquently describe the results. Socialism rewards the wrong behaviors.

retirement---a fairytale we were told about as kids.

i would like to say on the subject, as jesus and mohammad and others said "love your brothers as you love yourself" and i think that can end a whole lot of problems

grim007 wrote: i would like to say on the subject, as jesus and mohammad and others said "love your brothers as you love yourself" and i think that can end a whole lot of problems

Jim,
I pray everyday for my brothers and sisters and wish people would follow the christian ways as Jesus showed us how to live. But polotics are the evil and there are so many people that think differently. Like Obama-- the anti Christ!!! I am a christian and go to church every sunday but polotics makes me angry and a sinner.. Pray for peace and a new president..

GlassSeeker wrote: Somebody mentioned Tesla. Afterall,who would want an electric car that looks like this?

I know we should not be subsidizing the guy who can afford to drive it.

Sure looks like Telsa knows a good design when they see it.

John, I could'nt find the price for the lotus look alike but the base tesla is $50,000. that makes it a toy for the rich, and yet still subject to all of us subsidizing its PURCHASE. Who we are subsidizing, the rich buyer are corporate America is your selective choice, but it seems to be what I hear the left complain about everyday when there is not an extension cord attached. There is also the Brick issue that turns your 50,000 car into a 90,000 car. Here is an exerpt.

"A Tesla Roadster that is simply parked without being plugged in will eventually become a "brick". The parasitic load from the car's always-on subsystems continually drains the battery and if the battery's charge is ever totally depleted, it is essentially destroyed. Complete discharge can happen even when the car is plugged in if it isn't receiving sufficient current to charge, which can be caused by something as simple as using an extension cord. After battery death, the car is completely inoperable. At least in the case of the Tesla Roadster, it's not even possible to enable tow mode, meaning the wheels will not turn and the vehicle cannot be pushed nor transported to a repair facility by traditional means.

The amount of time it takes an unplugged Tesla to die varies. Tesla's Roadster Owners Manual [Full Zipped PDF] states that the battery should take approximately 11 weeks of inactivity to completely discharge [Page 5-2, Column 3: PDF]. However, that is from a full 100% charge. If the car has been driven first, say to be parked at an airport for a long trip, that time can be substantially reduced. If the car is driven to nearly its maximum range and then left unplugged, it could potentially "brick" in about one week.[1] Many other scenarios are possible: for example, the car becomes unplugged by accident, or is unwittingly plugged into an extension cord that is defective or too long.

When a Tesla battery does reach total discharge, it cannot be recovered and must be entirely replaced. Unlike a normal car battery, the best-case replacement cost of the Tesla battery is currently at least $32,000, not including labor and taxes that can add thousands more to the cost.

Tesla Motors' Devastating Design ProblemFive Examples And Counting

Of the approximately 2,200 Roadsters sold to date, a regional service manager for Tesla stated he was personally aware of at least five cases of Tesla Roadsters being "bricked" due to battery depletion. It is unknown if there are additional cases in other regions or countries.

The 340th Tesla Roadster produced went to a customer in Santa Barbara, California. In 2011, he took his Roadster out for a drive and then parked it in a temporary garage while his home was being renovated. Lacking a built-in Tesla charger or a convenient power outlet, he left the car unplugged. Six weeks later his car was dead. It took four men two hours to drag the 2,700-pound Roadster onto a flatbed truck so that it could be shipped to Tesla's Los Angeles area service center, all at the owner's expense. A service manager then informed him that "it's a brick" and that the battery would cost approximately $40,000 to replace. He was further told that this was a special "friends and family" price, strongly implying that Tesla generally charges more.

As a second Roadster owner discovered, the Tesla battery system can completely discharge even when the vehicle is plugged in. This owner's car was plugged into a 100-foot long extension cord for an extended period. The length of this extension cord evidently reduced the electric current to a level insufficient to charge the Tesla, resulting in another "bricked" Roadster.

A third bricked Tesla Roadster apparently sits in its owner's garage in Newport Beach, California. That owner allegedly had a similar prior incident with a BMW-produced electric vehicle. He claimed BMW replaced that vehicle, but Tesla refuses to do the same. The owner either couldn't afford or didn't want to pay Tesla the $40,000 (or more) to fix his car.

A fourth customer shipped his Tesla Roadster to Japan, reportedly only to discover the voltages there were incompatible. By then, it was too late, the car was bricked, and he had to ship it back to the US for repairs.


No Warranty, No Insurance, No Payment Plan

Tesla has a "bumper to bumper" warranty [Page 3: PDF], but the warranty text allows Tesla to hold the owner responsible for any damage related to "Failure to maintain the Battery at a proper charge level at all times" - the meaning of "proper charge" doesn't appear to be specifically defined. Tesla CEO Elon Musk, Vice President of Sales & Ownership Experience George Blankenship, and Vice President of Worldwide Service J. Joost de Vries all became directly involved in at least one "brick" situation, with de Vries stating in writing that since Tesla's documentation and warranty "identify in clear language to keep the Roadster on external power when parked" the decision to decline any warranty or financial relief was "correct and justified".[2]

Unfortunately for current and future Tesla owners who encounter this problem, it's also not covered by normal automobile insurance policies. This makes the situation almost unique in modern car-ownership: a $40,000 or more exposure that cannot be insured. After all, car insurance is designed to protect owners and drivers even when they are neglectful or at fault. The affected customers probably would have been in a better financial situation if they'd accidentally rolled their Teslas off a cliff, as insurance would generally cover much of those costs.

Due to Tesla batteries naturally decaying over time, Tesla offered Roadster customers a $12,000 "battery replacement program". This program is intended to replace a Roadster battery with a new one seven years after purchase. When asked, the Tesla service manager said even if owners had paid in advance for this replacement battery program, they would not be allowed to use it to replace an accidentally discharged battery - they would have to pay the full $40,000-plus cost.[3]

The Santa Barbara owner was also informed that no other financing or payment plan would be made available to pay for the replacement battery, and that he needed to either pay in full or remove his dead vehicle from the Tesla service center as soon as possible.

Tesla Motors' Devastating Design ProblemUnderstated Warnings to Owners

With such a large price tag for a bricked vehicle, it would be reasonable to expect Tesla to go to great lengths to ensure their customers were fully aware of the severity of battery discharge. Instead it seems that Tesla, while working to make it clear their vehicles should always be left plugged in, also appears to have focused on trying not to spook their current and future customers about the potentially severe ramifications of complete battery discharge.

The Tesla Roadster Owners Manual begins with several "Important Notes About Your Vehicle" [Page 1-2: PDF], none of which make any mention of battery discharge. In Chapter 5 of the manual, where vehicle charging is addressed, Tesla states that the vehicle is "designed to be plugged in" and that allowing the charge level to fall to 0% "can permanently damage the Battery." [Page 5-2: PDF] It does not specify that a completely discharged battery may need to be replaced, entirely at the owner's expense, at a cost that could be the majority of the value of the vehicle.

Tesla did begin handing out a "Battery Reminder Card" [PDF] when a Roadster was brought in for servicing. However, the card gently and cheerfully prods owners to "Remember - a connected Roadster is a happy Roadster!" with no mention of the possible consequences of a complete discharge.

There is no warning regarding battery discharge on the actual power port of the vehicle itself, where a gas-powered car often contains warnings about issues like the use of leaded gasoline in an unleaded vehicle. There is also no warning on the power port or in the Roadster Owner's manual regarding the use of extension cords........."

Overmyhead- your post just shows you don't need brains to have a lot of money.

50K car is a toy for the rich? yet a vote for the GOP is a vote for the super rich.

too bad states rights didn't win out in 1865...this whole big government animal started with Lincoln "preserving the union"...

john b wrote: Religion is the cause of most problems. How would someone who professes to be religious and love others call a person of different religious beliefs the anti Christ. Nothing but hypocrites who don't follow the teachings they say they hold so near and dear. More people have been killed in wars over religious beliefs than any other cause. I know, You're different because yours is the only religion that is right. I am probably the anti Christ because I believe it is all B.S.

Man I really feel sorry for you. I hope somewhere in life your faith will be saved.

whats it going to feel like when he goes 4 more?

PLEASE READ:

1.Unions will be much more powerful in national affairs than they are already. I think the Federal government will become much more like the state of California. In the Golden State, governing is only possible with the consent of the unions who control most, if not all, of the state’s Democratic party elected officials. Don’t believe me? Try and take one thin dime away from a public employees pension and see what happens here in California. Obama is similarly beholden to the unions. He has already bowed to them greatly on labor policies and trade agreements at a great cost to our free market system.
2.The bureaucracy in Washington, D.C. will be greatly expanded. Obama has quietly begun circumventing the role of Congress by expanding the grasp and power of the red tape makers within government. An expanding Health and Human Services bureau, the NLRB, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and a job killing EPA come to mind. Who needs Congress when a bureaucrat can rule by decree?
3.The cost of doing business in the U.S. will rise. From ObamaCare to EPA rulings to more taxes and regulation. A second Obama term would mean less entrepreneurism and more crony capitalism. The use of the term “crony capitalism” may be a misnomer here. The correct term may be “connected capitalism”. Those that have access to and understand how to maneuver within in the halls of government will flourish over those that simply have a good idea and work hard. I’m reminded of an old friend who took advantage of a jobs program to hire an employee for one year free courtesy of the city of San Francisco a few years ago. He filled out a multitude of pesky and arcane forms and within a few months he was allowed to hire an extra employee paid for by the taxpayers of the city by the bay for one year. A busy entrepreneur running a small tech company or a popular restaurant may not have the time or energy to even learn about such a program let alone spend the hours needed to comply with it. Unfortunately for my friend the “free employee” had to be a single mom who was out of work for at least three months. Not exactly the profile of the internet marketing executive he needed.

Ski,

The King Street Patriots are calling you.

Where did you get that last piece, it's a classic.

Right about now Dave is hiding, because you sure are not helping your "side".

ononewheel wrote: Ski, The King Street Patriots are calling you. Where did you get that last piece, it's a classic. Right about now Dave is hiding, because you sure are not helping your "side".

Well my last pieace spoke of the truth. My side is getting stronger by the minute.

ononewheel wrote: skicat2001 wrote: So glad Obama green mess up thinking these cars where are failing big time. And I hope gas prices keep going up to push his approval rating even lower. Wow,   that is really disgusting man. Better think that thought again, then repost how you really feel. I am referring to the last sentence because the first is a mess. You are not for the US, and I know it now for sure. Go crawl under a rock until you can

I think you need to crawl; under a rock and rethink your stategy...