You didn build that !

Those buildings and Big Bird will have their own troubles on 1/1/13 when the Bush tax cuts go away and the military gets cut.

From my good buddy Boortz:

12 Reasons to Vote for a Democrat

When your family or friends cannot explain why they voted for a Democrat, they should be given this list.

1. I voted for a Democrat because I believe oil companies’ profits of 4% on a gallon of gas are obscene, but the government taxing the same gallon of gas at 15% isn’t.

2. I voted for a Democrat because I believe the government will do a better job of spending the money I earn than I would.

3. I voted for a Democrat because Freedom of Speech is fine as long as nobody is offended by it.

4. I voted for a Democrat because I’m way too irresponsible to own a gun, and I know that my local police are all I need to protect me from murderers, rapists, thugs, and thieves.

5. I voted for a Democrat because I believe that people who can’t tell us if it will rain on Friday can tell us that the polar ice caps will disappear in ten years because of Global Warming if I don’t start driving a Prius or a Chevy Volt.

6. I voted for a Democrat because I’m not concerned about millions of babies being aborted so long as we keep all death row inmates alive.

7. I voted for a Democrat because I think illegal aliens have a right to free health care, education, and Social Security benefits.

8. I voted for a Democrat because I believe that business should not be allowed to make profits for themselves. They need to break even and give the rest away to the government for redistribution as the Democrats see fit.

9. I voted for a Democrat because I believe liberal judges need to rewrite the Constitution regularly to suit some fringe folks who would never get their agendas past the voters.

10. I voted for a Democrat because I think that it’s better to pay billions to people who hate us for their oil, but not drill for our own because it might upset some useless endangered beetle, gopher, or fish.

11. I voted for a Democrat because while we live in the greatest, most wonderful country in the world, I was promised “HOPE AND CHANGE.”

12. I voted for a Democrat because my head is so firmly buried in my butt that it’s unlikely that I’ll ever have another point of view.

I don't consider myself a Democrat, but I have voted for some in the past, so I'll try to make my own sense of this ridiculous and over simplified list (in bold)...

BuffaloBFN wrote: Those buildings and Big Bird will have their own troubles on 1/1/13 when the Bush tax cuts go away and the military gets cut. From my good buddy Boortz: 12 Reasons to Vote for a Democrat When your family or friends cannot explain why they voted for a Democrat, they should be given this list. 1. I voted for a Democrat because I believe oil companies’ profits of 4% on a gallon of gas are obscene, but the government taxing the same gallon of gas at 15% isn’t. Those 4% sure are still doing them good, seeing as how ExxonMobile is the most profitable corporation on the planet. Heaven forbid any money go to the govt. especially since we don't need it to pay for anything legit, like reducing the national debt, paying for infrastructure, medicare, medicaid, defense, education, etc... 2. I voted for a Democrat because I believe the government will do a better job of spending the money I earn than I would. I would argue that the govt. does in fact spend some of your money (not all) better than you do since that is kinda the point. Despite what many want to believe the most basic purpose of government is to pool resources to allow the group to do more for itself than any one individual could do on their own. Unless you want to build your own private road everywhere you ever want to go 3. I voted for a Democrat because Freedom of Speech is fine as long as nobody is offended by it. There are limits to free speech in fact, it doesn't mean that you get to say whatever you want. And quite frankly I think people on both sides of the political spectrum don't like speech against them. It isn't like Democrats have the corner on this market 4. I voted for a Democrat because I’m way too irresponsible to own a gun, and I know that my local police are all I need to protect me from murderers, rapists, thugs, and thieves. Yes because Obama is coming to take away our guns... wait, wasn't this supposed to happen like four years ago... 5. I voted for a Democrat because I believe that people who can’t tell us if it will rain on Friday can tell us that the polar ice caps will disappear in ten years because of Global Warming if I don’t start driving a Prius or a Chevy Volt. This is a fundamental misunderstanding of weather vs. climate. Maybe I cannot tell you to the degree how warm it will be tomorrow, but I can definitely tell you that it will be colder in December than it is in July. Similarly I can tell you that if you go south it gets warmer, and if you north it will get colder. Global Climate Change is working over large areas and long periods of time, and predicts changes in AVERAGES. Personally I don't advocate Volts, Prius', or any other simplistic solution to Global Climate Change (GCC). Quite frankly it is going to take a hell of lot more than that, and I can tell you it is going to be painful. At the moment estimates of the cost of GCC is ~1% of GLOBAL GDP, and I have to believe that it will only increase. And don't tell me it is a hoax, since you've probably never spent one second actually studying it. And no, reading websites doesn't count as "studying." 6. I voted for a Democrat because I’m not concerned about millions of babies being aborted so long as we keep all death row inmates alive. Of course everybody who is pro-choice wants babies to die. That is so far off the mark, and this is such a complicated issue. I don't think that there is anything incongruent about being pro-choice and anti-death penalty. You may not agree, but I think both could fall under a single understanding of human rights. 7. I voted for a Democrat because I think illegal aliens have a right to free health care, education, and Social Security benefits. Who is advocating this? Is this somebody's position? And even if it was, I think that the truth is that many "illegals" are already getting health care on your dime at the ER whether it is legislated or not. And you're also going to tell me that you want KIDS to not be educated. At least they won't get in trouble or anything if they aren't in school. I cannot speak to SS benefits, but I doubt many of them are getting any. Please prove me wrong. 8. I voted for a Democrat because I believe that business should not be allowed to make profits for themselves. They need to break even and give the rest away to the government for redistribution as the Democrats see fit. This one is so over the top that I don't even know where to start... 9. I voted for a Democrat because I believe liberal judges need to rewrite the Constitution regularly to suit some fringe folks who would never get their agendas past the voters. Liberals call Conservative judges "activist" and Conservatives call Liberal judges "activists." The truth is that it is the judiciaries JOB to interpret the law. Also, there is something known as "tyranny of the majority" which is something that the judicial branch helps to guard against. Just because a lot of people agree with a law doesn't make it right, or even constitutional! 10. I voted for a Democrat because I think that it’s better to pay billions to people who hate us for their oil, but not drill for our own because it might upset some useless endangered beetle, gopher, or fish. This conflates two issues; 1) energy "independence" and 2) environmentalism/endangered species. To the first I don't think anybody "thinks that it's better" to buy oil from overseas but we still keep doing it. You tell me why... I can think of a few reasons mostly having to do with where the oil is and how our infrastructure has been built up over decades. As to the second, as an environmental scientist I hesitate to ever call a species "useless." To all those followers of the Bible out there I don't remember GOD saying "Just take care of the parts of my creation you are fond of, and well you know, just trash the rest I was just messin' when I made those anyway!" 11. I voted for a Democrat because while we live in the greatest, most wonderful country in the world, I was promised “HOPE AND CHANGE.” Hate to break it to you, but just about everybody thinks that they live in the "greatest, most wonderful country in the world." And boy, things sure were going pretty darn well four years ago as I recall. The last thing anybody wanted was hope for the future and a change in direction. 12. I voted for a Democrat because my head is so firmly buried in my butt that it’s unlikely that I’ll ever have another point of view. Again, this is not a quality that only the Left possesses. How many times have you heard the same accusation yourself? I think we'd all do a lot better if we did exactly what you say; dare to have another point of view. To that end I hope I've given you a little bit of my own point of view! Always open to conversation!

GlassSeeker wrote: Why should gays not be allowed/have the right to get married? (Just the sheer number of gay marriages could do alot to help the economy.) There have always been gays in the military, so there are gay veterans who would like to be allowed to marry the person of their choice. How does that hurt/infringe on anyone else?

You look at it as a civil right..... I see it as a risk to our future well-being.
.

Hansel wrote: Hi Dave, The LG Chem battery plant that you linked to is in my hometown. Maybe you should balance Fox New's coverage with that of the local newspaper, which itself leans rather right. It is not as cut and dried as Fox would have you believe. Holland Sentinel LG Chem Article Even with furloughing people the construction of the facility alone was ~$300 million, most of which went to construction workers in Michigan. Probably some people I know. I'm sure they're happy about that. And I bet you would be too.

Hansel, Welcome back I hope all has been well.

factories are not supposed to be public work projects. They are supposed to pay for themselves and then provide future employment for workers. They must not have covered that in Obamas community organizer classes. Mitt has helped build companies like Staples that have built and are paying for 2300 stores and employ 51,000 people. This is what private companies do with money that the government does not confiscate and throw away.

GlassSeeker wrote: Perfect, so as long as it does not infringe on the rights of others, Agreed: So you do support gay marriage then, it certainly does not infringe on anyone elses rights. Romney does not feel veterans should have the right to pursue happiness. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/12/gay-veteran-steals-the-show-at-romney-endorsement-event/

First of all marriage licenses are issued by states, not the feds. It should never be a presidential issue. To somehow tie Romney s opinion of marriage to a stance against veterans rights shows how far you will go to discredit the man.

As I suspected you are using a liberal version of a "right" Marriage is not a right, it is a privilege. Rights are individual, and no one individual can be guaranteed marriage. Marriage requires a willing mate which some will never find.

Most Christians believe marriage was created by God for a man and a women. Why are gays pushing for marriage rather than civil unions. A civil union would give them all the benefits and legal protections without crapping on the christian institution. The reason is that they are pushing a far larger agenda.

The issue is on the ballot in Minnesota. Our liberal attorney general who is in charge of fair elections is under investigation for using his position and government resources (the AG website for one) to actively campaign against the amendment to keep the states definition of marriage as between a man and a women. The amendment does not seek to change any law, only to stop activist judges from writing the sates laws instead of the legislature like they did in Massachusetts.

There is also the slippery slop of moral decay. If gay marriage passes what is to stop expansion to more than two individuals, adults and kids, people and animals........ All the same arguments apply. Why should a sheep lover be denied happiness?

Again this is not a presidential matter. Just a nice diversion to take the argument away from the fact that our president sucks at his job. If you wish to base your vote on an irrelevant opinion on gay marriage over the issues of a very bad economy, well that is an interesting choice.

GlassSeeker wrote: 62 wood wrote: You look at it as a civil right..... I see it as a risk to our future well-being. . It certainly does not pose any risk to my future. How does letting a gay veteran marry another man pose a risk to "our" future well being??????????? Please explain.

Besides the Biblical and moral issues which are argued, I'm sure you've heard of HIV and AIDS.

Just curious, when were you born?

OverMyHead wrote: Hansel I struggle between my christian side which should not condone gays, and my libertarian side which says it is not my business. You leave out polygamy, and prostitution which both can meet your consenting litmus test but society views as deviant ( One that differs from a norm, especially a person whose behavior and attitudes differ from accepted social standards.) from a Biblical homosexual activity is deviant, polygamy in the old testament was interestingly not)The difference between the three is how effective there PR campaigns have been. All three were illegal at one time in this country. One has had success at changing societies views. For me there is a difference between tolerance of a behavior and sanctioning it. Jesus never met a gay Samaritan in the bible, but my guess his response would have been similar to the one he gave the prostitute at the well.First he forgave her, but then he said go and sin no more.

Lumping together being born a homosexual with choosing to have more than one wife or choosing to engage the services of a prostitute is a leap that most christians wouldn't think of doing. Certainly no thinking individuals would do so, nor would any who have studied the teachings of christ (which strangely also arent found in the old testament).

Fighting to the death to defend the freedom of finacial institutions to lend the government backed money out without regulation while prying thier way into the bedrooms of thier fellow citizens is a crazy type of hypocracy required by a party that struggles to amass a voting majority that will support the interests of the monied minority. The constitution which we are to believe conservatives hold so dear specifically does allow congress to regulate interstate commerce, but it sure doesnt say where the federal government should overrule state decisions about who can and cannot get married.

While I am not ignoring this thread ... Dave name 3 real economists that think stimulus spending delayed recovery during the great depression... That would be like finding 6 economists that say romneys economic plan wouldnt explode the deficit and raise taxes on the middle class... pure fiction.

That is frankly no less a silly argument. God made people (and animals) that are born attracted to people of their own sex. This is an undisputed fact that he has placed before you, if you choose to ignore fact then you choose to be ignorant. Who are you or I to tell these children of god they should reject the way their creator in his infinite wisdom intended them to be.   

There is no such fact that god created those who could not reject their predilection to marry a half dozen children… we as a society make those rules to protect our daughters, as do we make rules about incest to protect the children that maybe produced as well as the children who are subject to their parents wishes by the very nature of the relationship. It’s a classic case of the right to extending your fist ends at the end of my nose.. if your behavior does not negatively impact the rest of society it is simply not our business.

None of this belongs in political argument in the united states because here it is not within the scope of our government to restrict your life liberty or pursuit of happiness.    How people continually interpret that to mean we shouldn’t make millionaires pay their share of the taxes that defend their property and keep up the infrastructure that allows them to conduct commerce and yet we should define how people should defend the “moral” nature of our country I simply cannot figure out.   

There is a civility decline in our country being fed by those who wish to divide us to their own benefit, but from a moral standpoint one cannot argue we were in a much worse spot back when we condoned slavery and used guns to settle livestock disputes.

The same people decrying the morality decline due to the gays takin our marriages are often the ones that seem to have the biggest problem with the government providing some food or housing aid to a working mother so her kids don’t end up on the street hungry, but I don’t seem to remember Jesus having a problem with housing or feeding the poor.   

in all cases?? I dont think so

Jllogan wrote: 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9.Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10. nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the question was asked in response to this, "...then who can be saved..." Since your argument is bible to the letter then I invite you to keep reading it because none of us are righteous is the point.

Well stated JOE....I hate to have to be the one to tell you guys this but if Jesus were walking this earth today preaching the help the poor, be tolerant, be forgiving, render unto Caesar, peace not war, liberal hippie sermons he was giving 2000 years ago.....who do you think would be the first political party trying to crucify him? No doubt the "Conservative" one. If he were running for President as an independent would you call him a conservative or a liberal? No doubt again he'd be labeled a liberal.

So for those of you soothing yourselves on the...."I'm with the more conservative Christian party theme"....get your head out of your behinds. There is nothing remotely similar about conservative Christian morals and Conservative politics.

And might I remind you conservatives out there that it was a Republican that took this country back down the road of deficit spending and handed a plummeting freight train over to the latest admin. It takes time to put the brakes back on after such a ridiculous fiasco as the previous administration. That's right...fiasco....it's undeniable and unarguable even though many of you would like to try.

Also...voting Democrat does not guarantee judges. Bush Jr. picked 5 judges all you abortion rights activists. That's enough to control the Supreme Court outright. Abortion was never even addressed. If you are clinging on to Republicans because of crap like that, you've been duped.

And another thing....if you think oil companies are surviving on 4% you're dumber than Forrest Gump looks. That's like believing the airlines can lose money every year and stay in business. They do it and almost always report a loss.

Look up the REAL cost of a gallon of gas. There was a Bush administration study done on it. It says that gas is subsidized to the tune of $8-15 per gallon. Yep...that's right. It's so large that if 1/4 of this money was given to green energy just for the barrels of oil they replace, we could power America for free and give money back. That's right. Imagine a General Motors that doesn't have a power bill. Every single thing we build would suddenly be more competitive and we wouldn't have to rob a single dollar from the govt. coffers to do it. The economic stimulus would be overwhelming. Hell...you could probably even afford to keep your guns.

I know it's a lot easier said than done but nobody is even attempting. Just a 5% adjustment would cut power costs 20% and that'd be a darn good start and certainly enough to turn our embattled economy around.

I worked in the power industry researching energy policy. If you want to see this country turn around, get rid of your politicians that are sold out to the oil and gas lobbies. And if you honestly think we can drill our way out go back to the Forrest Gump reference. That's like saying you fixed your Cocaine addiction with more Cocaine. Even if we could drill out...and we can't...not even close...Boone Pickens the oil billionaire even says so...even if we could, it would only be a temporary solution.

So let me hold your hands through this:

The Republican Party ain't that conservative
The Republican Party is not any more or less moral than it's opposition
A Republican put deficit spending back on the agenda
They'd label Christ himself as a liberal hippie (if you argue that you're just lying to yourself)
And if you want to fix this country we need a REAL energy policy not just...we can drill out or attack someone that has it policies.

OH.....AND DEMOCRATS DO NOT WANT TO TAKE YOUR GUNS BUT A CERTAIN REPUBLICAN THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT THAT THE PATRIOT ACT LET HIM COME INTO YOUR HOME WITHOUT A WARRANT.....

If there is anyone left with their head STILL stuck up their butt...take their voter registration card...they're illiterate.

Anybody watch the VP debate tonight? I don't think it was a KO like it was between Romney and Obama last week. Old Uncle Joe had showed some passion, and made some substantive points.

I would say it was a draw, but, for one issue. And that is that Biden came across like a crazy old man with the continued laughing and smirking, and non-stop interuptions. Ryan came across as calm, cool, collected.....and respectful.

Decision goes to Ryan based on Biden's unhinged performance.

TX Wind wrote: Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the question was asked in response to this, "...then who can be saved..." Since your argument is bible to the letter then I invite you to keep reading it because none of us are righteous is the point. Well stated JOE....I hate to have to be the one to tell you guys this but if Jesus were walking this earth today preaching the help the poor, be tolerant, be forgiving, render unto Caesar, peace not war, liberal hippie sermons he was giving 2000 years ago.....who do you think would be the first political party trying to crucify him? No doubt the "Conservative" one. If he were running for President as an independent would you call him a conservative or a liberal? No doubt again he'd be labeled a liberal. So for those of you soothing yourselves on the...."I'm with the more conservative Christian party theme"....get your head out of your behinds. There is nothing remotely similar about conservative Christian morals and Conservative politics. And might I remind you conservatives out there that it was a Republican that took this country back down the road of deficit spending and handed a plummeting freight train over to the latest admin. It takes time to put the brakes back on after such a ridiculous fiasco as the previous administration. That's right...fiasco....it's undeniable and unarguable even though many of you would like to try. Also...voting Democrat does not guarantee judges. Bush Jr. picked 5 judges all you abortion rights activists. That's enough to control the Supreme Court outright. Abortion was never even addressed. If you are clinging on to Republicans because of crap like that, you've been duped. And another thing....if you think oil companies are surviving on 4% you're dumber than Forrest Gump looks. That's like believing the airlines can lose money every year and stay in business. They do it and almost always report a loss. Look up the REAL cost of a gallon of gas. There was a Bush administration study done on it. It says that gas is subsidized to the tune of $8-15 per gallon. Yep...that's right. It's so large that if 1/4 of this money was given to green energy just for the barrels of oil they replace, we could power America for free and give money back. That's right. Imagine a General Motors that doesn't have a power bill. Every single thing we build would suddenly be more competitive and we wouldn't have to rob a single dollar from the govt. coffers to do it. The economic stimulus would be overwhelming. Hell...you could probably even afford to keep your guns. I know it's a lot easier said than done but nobody is even attempting. Just a 5% adjustment would cut power costs 20% and that'd be a darn good start and certainly enough to turn our embattled economy around. I worked in the power industry researching energy policy. If you want to see this country turn around, get rid of your politicians that are sold out to the oil and gas lobbies. And if you honestly think we can drill our way out go back to the Forrest Gump reference. That's like saying you fixed your Cocaine addiction with more Cocaine. Even if we could drill out...and we can't...not even close...Boone Pickens the oil billionaire even says so...even if we could, it would only be a temporary solution. So let me hold your hands through this: The Republican Party ain't that conservative The Republican Party is not any more or less moral than it's opposition A Republican put deficit spending back on the agenda They'd label Christ himself as a liberal hippie (if you argue that you're just lying to yourself) And if you want to fix this country we need a REAL energy policy not just...we can drill out or attack someone that has it policies. OH.....AND DEMOCRATS DO NOT WANT TO TAKE YOUR GUNS BUT A CERTAIN REPUBLICAN THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT THAT THE PATRIOT ACT LET HIM COME INTO YOUR HOME WITHOUT A WARRANT..... If there is anyone left with their head STILL stuck up their butt...take their voter registration card...they're illiterate.

Jeff, on your assessment of Jesus. I think the Dems would throw him out rather quickly also. The if-it-feels-good-do-it policies of the left would have met with swift and stinging rebukes. Jesus also preached individual responsibility and leading by example. He was big on giving and charity but I do not recall a reference where he suggested it should be done by taking from from anyone, only that those who have should give. I also don't think he ever used the words "fair share", In fact I don't recall any statements he ever made that sounded like envy. He did not offer life long income to the poor and lame, he just helped them back onto there feet presumably to go off to work.

I wont even go into the history of the housing collapse again because you guys just don't want to see it.

OverMyHead wrote: Jeff, on your assessment of Jesus. I think the Dems would throw him out rather quickly also. The if-it-feels-good-do-it policies of the left would have met with swift and stinging rebukes. Jesus also preached individual responsibility and leading by example. He was big on giving and charity but I do not recall a reference where he suggested it should be done by taking from from anyone, only that those who have should give. I also don't think he ever used the words "fair share", In fact I don't recall any statements he ever made that sounded like envy. He did not offer life long income to the poor and lame, he just helped them back onto there feet presumably to go off to work.

Never said the Dems wouldn't toss him too, just get tired of the old religion argument that automatically assumes Jesus himself would be a Republican. His views were VERY "liberal" for the day and would by today's standards be considered liberal. I disagree that Democrats have a plethora of "feel good policies". He was not just big on giving, he said it was a requirement. So if the govt should regulate morality, caring for the poor should by no means be excluded. I never used the terms fair share or mentioned envy. But...if giving to the poor is a duty, I'd say that's pretty much a guarantee if that lead is followed. As far as taking from anyone to do it, the govt taxes us just like Caesar taxed people then. He said, "render unto Caesar..." Fortunately for us, our government is more responsible with what is rendered than Caesar was and takes care of these charitable obligations.

And where does this taking from someone to pay for these things come into play? The upper income in this country pays less taxes per dollar earned on average than the middle class. So I say by all means lead by example. I believe you have effectively made the point of the left with that statement. Because really....if you want to go there...you should "[...sell everything you have, give it to the poor, and [follow {Jesus}]."

My point is, stop making religion and morality an excuse for policies that are in the end flat out amoral. Entitlements and infrastructure expenditures are not what's killing this country. Both parties are amoral, both parties are guilty. Lobbyists are dictating action in this country and the last time I checked you can't build anything from the top down. It has to start from the bottom up. So if you want to fix your economics you have to start at the bottom not trickle down from the top. Some things are just too easily common sense.

TX Wind wrote: Jllogan wrote: 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9.Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10. nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the question was asked in response to this, "...then who can be saved..." Since your argument is bible to the letter then I invite you to keep reading it because none of us are righteous is the point.

I agree none of us our righteous, according to the teachings of the bible the only way to heaven is through christs death taking our place and sin and our faith in him. Homosexuals can go to heaven all sinners can, the point is that homosexuality is explicitly called a sin in a the bible, nothing about their ability or inability to be saved. Read the next verse

11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Washington is an immoral place, both parties. The proof is right here:

http://www.justfacts.com/nationaldebt.asp

The future that Washington is going to give our kids and grandkids is as immoral as it gets, yet no one is doing anything about it.

The fiscal cliff we face in January is nothing compared to what our children will face.


What's Mitt's plan? Bigger deficits in the short term.
What's Obama's plan? Bigger deficits in the short term.

Funny, Washington never makes it to the Long Term.