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    Posted: November-25-2012 at 2:21pm
Would anyone have a exploded view of the dual by pass system {cooling} or can one tell me just how much water is let in the engine block prior to the thermostat, fully opening?

thanks ...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-25-2012 at 2:37pm
Linda,
I'm confused to what you are actually asking. The RWP always pumps the same volume. What the engine doesn't need via the T stat, the excess water goes out to via the exhaust.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-25-2012 at 2:42pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Linda,
I'm confused to what you are actually asking. The RWP always pumps the same volume. What the engine doesn't need via the T stat, the excess water goes out to via the exhaust.
PCM claims this system allows FULL flow, to engine black ,even before thermo opens up.. Just wondering how much? Full circulation, entire engine?

They claim there are small openings? That allow this?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davidg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-25-2012 at 7:56pm
Not sure whether this answers your question exactly or not, but, I drained my block and manifolds (PCM), and drained it into a bucket. It filled about half of a 5 gallon bucket. Hope this helps some.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-25-2012 at 8:13pm
5 gallons at 3000 RPM for every 15 seconds is the norm. If the T stat does not open, there is NO water flow into the block. The "dual by pass" you are referencing is what I mentioned about water being diverted to the exhaust manifolds even when the engine doesn't need it.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-25-2012 at 9:46pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-25-2012 at 9:50pm
8122pbrainard-----See the above info from PCm-- Sounds like there is a certain amount of water that gets to the block, even before the thermo opens?

...Am I reading this right? Thanks again for all your help
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-25-2012 at 9:51pm
This is the same reason you don't have to warm up your engine in order to get anti freeze in the block when winterizing. Hollywood has posted a photo of a thermostat housing recently showing the bypass. Other than that I have no idea what you are asking.
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Originally posted by 81nautique 81nautique wrote:

This is the same reason you don't have to warm up your engine in order to get anti freeze in the block when winterizing. Hollywood has posted a photo of a thermostat housing recently showing the bypass. Other than that I have no idea what you are asking.
i hear you--- not according to some in the forum... Thanks again!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-25-2012 at 9:57pm
Originally posted by eljayrx eljayrx wrote:

Originally posted by 81nautique 81nautique wrote:

This is the same reason you don't have to warm up your engine in order to get anti freeze in the block when winterizing. Hollywood has posted a photo of a thermostat housing recently showing the bypass. Other than that I have no idea what you are asking.
i hear you--- not according to some in the forum... Thanks again!

Linda,
I as well as Alan are obviously confused to your question??? What are you really concerned about?

"not according to some in the forum"? Tell us more!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-25-2012 at 10:03pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by eljayrx eljayrx wrote:

Originally posted by 81nautique 81nautique wrote:

This is the same reason you don't have to warm up your engine in order to get anti freeze in the block when winterizing. Hollywood has posted a photo of a thermostat housing recently showing the bypass. Other than that I have no idea what you are asking.
i hear you--- not according to some in the forum... Thanks again!

Linda,
I as well as Alan are obviously confused to your question??? What are you really concerned about?

"not according to some in the forum"? Tell us more!!
I have concerns about maybe thermo did not open, when winterized..See the pcm notes above about 3 post up...Did some or any anti-freeze get to the block?? ty again
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Originally posted by 81nautique 81nautique wrote:

This is the same reason you don't have to warm up your engine in order to get anti freeze in the block when winterizing. Hollywood has posted a photo of a thermostat housing recently showing the bypass. Other than that I have no idea what you are asking.
Would love to find that post---- ty very much!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-25-2012 at 10:14pm
Linda,
You are being mislead by others who feel the T stat must be warm/open to allow the anti freeze to enter the block. This is a misunderstanding. A engine block has a in and a out. The T stat controls the out. When you pour in the the antifreeze it will go into the block via the low porting on the block.

I'm sorry to hear that you via searching the site found some idiots that do not know what they are talking about!!   


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-25-2012 at 10:29pm
Sounds like she did a suck up method without draining first, possibly without the engine up to operating temperature.
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Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Linda,
You are being mislead by others who feel the T stat must be warm/open to allow the anti freeze to enter the block. This is a misunderstanding. A engine block has a in and a out. The T stat controls the out. When you pour in the the antifreeze it will go into the block via the low porting on the block.

I'm sorry to hear that you via searching the site found some idiots that do not know what they are talking about!!   
So while sucking in the anti-freeze, even if the thermo is not open,It will find its way to the block.LOW PORTING?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75 Tique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-25-2012 at 10:33pm
Originally posted by eljayrx eljayrx wrote:

    Would love to find that post---- ty very much!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-25-2012 at 10:38pm
No, antifreeze will not get into the block if the engine was not drained first. (and engine not hot).

So you need to know if the person doing the winterizing drained both block plugs before sucking the antifreeze.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-25-2012 at 10:44pm
Full circulation if water doesn't mean it's all from the RWP.
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Originally posted by eljayrx eljayrx wrote:

so when i read this, even though there is a full load in the block, nothing will entire there? I must not be understanding ,what pcm is say then? They claim FULL circulation even while the engine is in warm up mode..Full meaning the Block as well......

ty.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 65 'cuda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-25-2012 at 11:49pm
Think about it this way, the thermostat is the EXIT from the block, the circulating water pump will circulate the water in the block until it warms to the temperature the thermostat will open, then the   pressure drop described above will allow the raw water pump to replace that water with cool water from the lake, the presure balance occurs in the thermostat housing.
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Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Linda,
You are being mislead by others who feel the T stat must be warm/open to allow the anti freeze to enter the block. This is a misunderstanding. A engine block has a in and a out. The T stat controls the out. When you pour in the the antifreeze it will go into the block via the low porting on the block.

I'm sorry to hear that you via searching the site found some idiots that do not know what they are talking about!!   
ok -- Now if one was sucking it in, would the same thing happen as well? make it to the BLOCK. Antifreeze...I'm now nervous that the therm may not have opened, so I'm hoping you are correct! I'm going to have to make a trip and dump out form block or take the thermo out,,,,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2012 at 10:40am
8122pbrainard---------------- hoping that some made it.. for now-- temps dropped big time... If some made it then I'm hoping I have bought some-time............................!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2012 at 10:54am
If the block was drained prior to sucking in the antifreeze it got in, if the block was not drained it probably didn't at least not as much as you want in it.
Pull a drain plug see if you get antifreeze or water.
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Originally posted by gun-driver gun-driver wrote:

If the block was drained prior to sucking in the antifreeze it got in, if the block was not drained it probably didn't at least not as much as you want in it.
Pull a drain plug see if you get antifreeze or water.
thanks Im just hoping some made it for now.I'm going to have to make a trip up there and, have this done over.. My brother was afraid of trying to get those drain plugs out,, He said they look rusted and maybe frozen,
    How about taking the thermo out and doing the suck up method? about 6 gallons.. Would this be ok?

If i did get some for now then , i'm hoping time was bought..ty GUN!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2012 at 11:07am
You got to remove the drain plugs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75 Tique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2012 at 1:23pm
Those are excellent graphics to help clear it up HW. One question though. Even tho we are supposed to drain then pour, not suck it up, there are many that suck it up (with or without draining) If you go the suck it route (not that bad, if you drain first, right?) and the engine is cold (i.e. t-stat not open) Why does it not happen like your "cold" picture vs your "pour/suck up" picture. I believe I have heard people say the t-stat does not have to be open to successfully suck up AF, (because the t-stat controls flow out, not in) so what determins if the AF goes to the manifolds (Your "cold" picture) vs going into the block (your "pour/suck" picture)?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2012 at 1:40pm
Sucking up is usually a bit more cumbersome than pouring in (especially on a direct drive), but theyre both effective. Of course, you MUST drain first.

The difference between the cold vs. the pour/suck diagram is the presence of water in the block (cold) vs. empty (pour/suck). Fluid will not enter the block if its already full and has nowhere to go. Its going to follow the path of least resistance... which would be out the manifolds. If everything is empty, the port in the PCM t'stat housing that feeds the block is lower than the exit to the manifolds- so gravity ensures it will fill first.

Not all thermostat housings are created equal though... so if trying to fill a non-PCM, the safe bet is to pour in through the large circ pump hose.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2012 at 1:47pm
So, if the problem is that the block wasn't drained and the drain plugs cannot be removed and it is going to get really cold before the boat can be fixed properly, I would punch holes in the freeze plugs and let everything drain and then pour 5 gallons of anti freeze through it and let it all drain out and fix it right come spring. Better than worrying all winter. This is a last resort hobbiest move that I've done in an emergency.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2012 at 9:19pm
Good Luck Linda - Hope it is OK.

This is the type of information that we can straighten out.
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