Bad coil? |
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Posted: May-20-2013 at 5:20pm |
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took the boat on a slow cruise,, about 1200 rpm around the lake to look at the homes.. went about 3 miles,, engine started to sound rough, like a slight mis-fire.. So I gave it some gas, hesitated then went.. made top end fine,,,
As I slowed down , WHAM,, engine died? Would not re start.. only if I went to start up mode and increased rpm.. Then stall again, waited about 20 mins, wham started up and ran ok.. made it back to the dock. So about 3 hrs later, I tried to re start,, all fine, so, I go out for a fast spin, about 5mins, all just fine.. Next day take the same slow cruise,, wham died, same thing, waited 20 mins made it back to the dock.. I called ,my brother, he thinks it might have a bad coil? Anyone every have this happen? ty.. |
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75 Tique
Grand Poobah Joined: August-12-2004 Location: Seven Lakes, NC Status: Offline Points: 6130 |
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Linda,
This is a common symptom with multiple possible fixes. I have experienced it myself. Some always say check the antisiphon valve on the gas tank, but I, personally never believed that to be the situation when it is fine when cool, but not fine when hot. I think an anti siphon valve problem would not be time or temp dependent. other possibility: As you already came up with, coil. Yes they can fail when hot and be ok upon cooling down. Best way to check this is get a new coil, but not install it. Take your lake cruise again, and when it happens, then swap the coil. If you are good to go, then you know you have isolated and cured the problem. In my case it was a bad cap, but I think the crab (flat) caps are more susceptible to mild deformation and hence, bad contacts when hot (as told to me by a supplier.) A standard vertical connection cap may not have that issue. Best bet, try the coil and if that doesn't work, let the diagnosing resume. |
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“So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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If the coil is laying horizontal (std) then an epoxy coil will be needed. I used the MSD 'Blaster high vibration' coil & have not had any problems.
An oil filled coil will fail if mounted in horizontal position. |
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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Was an electronic conversion installed to replace the points??
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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I don't agree with this I've heard a lot of responses like this and disagree, My oil filled coil lay's on its side and has run fine for years. |
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Good to know, got my info from the site here somewhere along the way. Do you have any idea what makes them fail?
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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75 Tique
Grand Poobah Joined: August-12-2004 Location: Seven Lakes, NC Status: Offline Points: 6130 |
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I am not particularly knowledgeable about such things but had my doubts about this generalization as well. My (assumed to be oil filled) horizontal coil hasn't failed yet in 37 years. Maybe any day now. As a rule the advice on here is spot on and helpful, but every now and then (not so much recently, but historically) people would recommend a fix that didn't make sense. For a boat that has run great for years and suddenly failed, people would day, oh its wired wrong, or you need this kind of thing not that kind of thing. Clearly not the case if it ran great for years like that. My favorite problem description on here tho are the: My boat ran good until I did this or that and now it doesn't work. Any suggestions? Not being a motorhead, I pretty much prescribe to the if it ain't broke don't fix it school, so as to avoid that problem. (tho I do do routine maintenance, so don't jump on me about that) |
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“So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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I'm wondering if maybe oil filled coils, laying on their side, are possibly a little more sensitive to seeing a full 12 volts?
If I understand correctly, both the old points distributors and the newer Mallory electronic dizzys use a ballast resister. Somewhere in between there were Prestolite OEM Electronics like mine that don't use the resister. But, there were also the electronic conversion kits. Which, I believe called for full, un-resisted (no ballast resister) voltage. So, then the ballast resister is taken out of the loop. Now, I believe the resister is mainly there to protect the dizzy. But, the coil is also seeing lower voltage in a ballast resisted setup. So, a coil is going along happy seeing, what 8-10 volts?, for years, then all of sudden, wham! 12 volts after an electronic conversion. Many threads talk about ignition wiring, but this one just came up http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=29920&title=pro-tec-ignition-conversion-on-58-pro-boss |
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cadunkle
Groupie Joined: August-17-2012 Location: NJ Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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I had a similar problem last season. after 20-30 minutes of run time the boat would start to misfire, particularly at lower RPM. Would idle perfectly smooth, but 1000-1500 RPM misfired, higher RPM fine. Eventually it would stall out regardless of high or low RPM and would not start for 15-20 mins.
Coil felt quite hot. It was a new Mallory Marine epoxy filled coil, which I had got along with some other components troubleshooting another problem. Eventually I ran it until it stalled out and swapped the old coil on real quick, fired up immediately and ran fine. Only had it out a couple times last season after that but did not stall or fail to start as it had with the new coil. So yes, sounds very similar to the problem with a bad coil I had last season. Bring another coil and swap it when it dies to test. |
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kapla
Grand Poobah Joined: March-27-2008 Location: BA, Argentina Status: Offline Points: 6148 |
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flooding carb?
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<a href="">1992 ski nautique
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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If you notice in the drawing the distributor gets the 12v it needs from the in side of the resistor but the coil is still getting its power through the resister. |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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True, but that's a drawing of wiring for a newer Mallory. I believe the older electronic conversions, bypassed the resister, therefore delivering a full 12 volts to the coil after conversion, like this: |
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TX Foilhead
Grand Poobah Joined: February-01-2009 Location: Kingsland TX Status: Offline Points: 2076 |
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I questioned SKIDIM about the oil filled coil in the PCM ProTec replacement kit, and it went out in about an oil change or so. Everything new and wired correctly. Maybe its the heat here or I just run harder in rougher water than most, but I knew it would be a problem when I got it.
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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How you wire your EI conversion depends on if you have a resistor type coil or not.
If you have a resistor coil you can bypass the ballast resistor, if you do not have a resistor type coil you still need to run through the ballast resistor. This is all neither here nor there because the OP said she has points. I would check to see if the ballast resistor is bad and over heating the coil. |
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jackiewdeen
Senior Member Joined: January-31-2011 Location: Silver Lake, Oh Status: Offline Points: 237 |
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Been there, done that, My 75SN had an ignition switch wire problem. In trying to find a fix, I changed to a Electronic ignition and a year later a Blaster Coil seems to have been the remedy. The original 1975 coil did not like the idea of no points and would get tired when loaded, Ran great after a cooldown period. but very hot when running rough. Put a compatible resistor with the new coil and she seems very happy now, (Hi, Paul from Mama Deen as well)
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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Hey there Big Daddy (and Mama too) hope to see you guys this summer.
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merbesfield
Senior Member Joined: June-22-2009 Location: Lake Rabun Status: Offline Points: 183 |
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Hi guys, here is my issue, which sounds similar to above. Boat literally starts on very first crank, runs well at idle out of no wake, runs well at speed. Upon return to dock and no wake, seems to be skipping or sort of stuttering. Has gotten worse the last two trips. Last trip, upon return, I stopped before getting to my dock to fuel up, boat would not start. After sitting for 20 min it fired up and I made it home. Coil was extremely hot. So... Get a coil and give it a try? Should I run it until it fails and then swap, or just go ahead and swap? My boat is an 84 SN 2001. Thanks for the help.
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TX Foilhead
Grand Poobah Joined: February-01-2009 Location: Kingsland TX Status: Offline Points: 2076 |
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That coil will eventually leave you stranded.
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13514 |
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Sounds like you probably have an EI conversion kit in your distributor, bypassed resistor, and a factory (low resistance) coil. A higher resistance (epoxy filled) coil will likely solve your problem. There are many threads on this here, one very recently, that further explain this very common issue.
So Linda asked to be removed eh? She's only the second poster ever to be deactivated, the first wasn't by request. |
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merbesfield
Senior Member Joined: June-22-2009 Location: Lake Rabun Status: Offline Points: 183 |
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Can anyone provide me with some part nos.? Are these coils the same as those for street use on older cars such as Mustang? Napa sells one, part no. IC10SB,$23.50. So is this the correct coil. Don't know if my engine has been converted as suggested above. I know I have points. Will the Epoxy filled coil work either way? If so I would just go for that. Trying to buy one today before weekend. Nothing like waiting til last minute.
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ny_nautique
Platinum Member Joined: June-01-2011 Location: Albany NY Status: Offline Points: 1215 |
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This is the standard coil for your engine.
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- Jeff
1999 Ski Nautique |
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merbesfield
Senior Member Joined: June-22-2009 Location: Lake Rabun Status: Offline Points: 183 |
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Yes I know that but trying to cross reference locally. |
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merbesfield
Senior Member Joined: June-22-2009 Location: Lake Rabun Status: Offline Points: 183 |
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Well I put on a new coil and it made no difference, so definitely not the coil. While looking at the motor run, I noticed some sparks traveling down one of the plugs so clearly something is wrong there. So I guess my next step should be wires and plugs. I also determined, which did not even know, that my distributor has been converted to Pertronix set up so its not the points. Can anyone lead me to the correct part numbers for plugs, plug wires, dizzy cap and rotor? Went to local parts house and they were clueless. Can anyone tell me which 351 Windsor would be correct to reference for parts searches at the auto parts store?
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TX Foilhead
Grand Poobah Joined: February-01-2009 Location: Kingsland TX Status: Offline Points: 2076 |
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Unless you know specific part numbers I've learned from experience to order from SKIDIM, Whitelake, N3 or go to a PCM dealer, Nautique or a long time Supra dealer. Local parts house is usually a crap shoot much beyond oil and filters. Prestolite cap shouldnt be hard to find, don't buy wires unless they're for a 351 marine engine, cars use shorter wires.
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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merbesfield
Senior Member Joined: June-22-2009 Location: Lake Rabun Status: Offline Points: 183 |
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Thanks so much gun-driver. For me the coil on my boat is the one without the resister so I found out after I had bought the one you show here. I did not have my old one in hand and when I got to the boat to swap the new w old, the coil on it clearly said external resister not needed. So off to NAPA I went to swap coils. Not sure if it is why, but my boat has been converted to Pertronix, which I was not aware of. Anyhow, new coil or not, it did not fix the misfire. Next week I will pup the tuneup parts. How about the plugs?
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merbesfield
Senior Member Joined: June-22-2009 Location: Lake Rabun Status: Offline Points: 183 |
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Can anyone help w wires and plugs? Or do these need to be ordered form boat parts house?
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Plugs are autolight #24, buy them anywhere. I was able to make 80's vintage Ford F150 351 plug wires work. I bought NAPA gold version.
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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