Obama Care Stories

double post

emccallum wrote: OverMyHead wrote: “ How do they sleep at night? I know I couldn't. However, I am totally convinced that a Liberal's brain is wired completely different than mine. They really believe they know what is best for you, and they will do everything they can to make you conform to their standards. Personal choice/liberty is not a concept they understand, much like men not wanting to stop and ask for directions! The talking point for today is that those policies that are getting cancelled were substandard, and those people are better off on the exchanges. Just leave us alone!

I couldn't have put it better. I also don't understand how liberals think and the any thing goes to advance their agenda mentality. Lying,cheating, breaking laws and walking all over the Constitution is just another day at the office. After all its the ends that justify the means Right? If you want to see how 60 years of liberal democratic policy's really work go to Detroit.

For those that have lost their insurance Obama said he is sorry today.
Now dosnt that make you feel better?

Oboatacare. By the time you subsidise the low income boater you end up with the only option of bayliner that cost you $120 grand and a three week wait at the boat ramp.

We better be careful, knowing that they monitor the interweb we are probably just giving them ideas.

Nautiquehunter wrote: For those that have lost their insurance Obama said he is sorry today. Now dosnt that make you feel better?

Obama's apology paraphrased

Donald: That is without a doubt the best thing I have ever read in all my years on CCFan. Hysterical. Outstanding....

Our healthcare system wasn't broken? Double digit premium increases every year on those that were insured and 20 percent of the country being uninsured is the best system we can hope for in the USA?

Companies were moving manufacturing to canada to avoid paying us health insurance costs ...thats my definition of broken eh

Joe, I had the pleasure of receiving a paycheck for some time from a company in Ontario. The system there is not free (higher taxes just pay for it) and you do get what you pay for...
My wife was pregnant at the time and was not able to see a doctor or get a preventive screening, since she was deemed low risk (we went to the US and paid for the check) and there was no way to pay extra for the service if wanted.
Another friend had a lump in her breast and was then scheduled to get a MRI. the next available appointment was in 6 month...She also went to the US, paid the fee and got a result right away. Thank God, no cancer, but waiting 6 month would have killed her if it would have been...

So hands down, I prefer the US system as it was. It promotes people to work hard and seek jobs that have benefits and not to rely on the social safety net to catch all. Having said that, should there be a better safety net for people really in need for things outside of their control. YES
I also agree with non preexisting conditions and non lifetime maximum. But that is about it.

I don’t subscribe to Canadian health care horror stories… I understand it still gets paid for but the facts remain they live longer and healthier than we do and it costs them less per person to do it. Most companies don’t want to provide health care they want to do business, if you go back to 7 years ago many many companies were moving or planning to move plants not because of the labor costs, taxes, or energy costs but because of the out of control rise of health care costs in the US…   
Actual Obamacare in 4 sentences
If you sell insurance you have to actually cover stuff…
If you sell insurance you have to spend 80 percent of what you bring in on medical stuff or you have to refund money back to the people who bought your insurance.
If you can afford it you have to buy insurance, if you can’t afford it the government will subsidize your coverage.
The insurance companies have to sell it to you, even if they don’t like you because you have in the past or might in the future get sick, or because you don’t want to work for somebody else.   

Just another old thread full of old threats that didn’t happen, but don’t look at those we have a whole new set of dire predictions that will never happen for you to look at…

Large corporations have an outsized control over everything in this country, and yes the certificate of need process helps large health care providers, tying healthcare to employment helps only large corporations as well… the solution isn’t to elect guys that say they are all in favor of less government and more free markets, but really are in favor of government that only works in favor of those that already have enough to pay for campaign contributions and the finest lobbyists that K street can provide.

The main problem with free market solutions in healthcare is that for a market to work the laws of supply and demand have to apply. When your child is really sick demand for health care is infinite, you will not use less health care when the cost goes up, having an insurer between the consumer and the provider also makes an effective functioning market extremely difficult. There is no evidence that in health care free markets will bring down costs over time. In fact all evidence shows that in industrialized societies those with the best outcomes and lowest costs have national health insurance.   We are the biggest free market health care experiment and over time the costs have sky rocketed and the outcomes not kept pace. It is just reality, we can argue ideology against reality but that doesn't change reality...


The ACA attempts to fix some things that keep the health care market in the US from working correctly and provides some level of healthcare for those who cant afford it, so that the cost of their emergency room visits isn't added to the health insurance cost of only the middle class workers. It is not a great law.. but it isn't the boogyman

You are wrong… I work in planning for a multinational manufacturer, I know exactly what healthcare costs have done in the US and I know exactly how it effects employers and where they choose to add employees.   My previous three employers all now have their manufacturing done in mexico, I have seen the books and it wasn’t labor cost that moved them there.   I also know plenty of doctors (including a couple ski buddies) and have worked for a major medical device manufacturer. Everything you are describing is part of the Pre ACA system, the one that I have clearly stated was broken, is broken, and does need to be fixed. Putting one’s head in the sand and saying man I wish Obama didn’t break our perfect health care system is the silliness I am arguing against.   You are stuck on certificates of need… but that is just one tool used by a huge corporation to crush competition… that is your free market at work. What you need is a fair market for actual competition to improve services and pricing, but you can’t get a fair market with less regulation and with less government to enforce it.   To get a chance at a fair healthcare market you would need to get the money out of politics so that people got elected for serving their constituents needs instead of corporate need.   Since that is all but impossible we could do the only thing that has worked for other countries and go to a single payer system. Since that is all but impossible…. you get the ACA and less people die and insurance rates don’t go up quite as fast as they used to but that is about it.

[QUOTE=JoeinNY] "Putting one’s head in the sand and saying man I wish Obama didn’t break our perfect health care system is the silliness I am arguing against."

We agree that the system has been broken a long time. Ever since the gvt and insurance companies got involved. ACA isn't going to help.


" You are stuck on certificates of need… but that is just one tool used by a huge corporation to crush competition… that is your free market at work."

CONs are the farthest thing from a free market. I think you need to look up "free market". I don't need a CON to open a deli, and I certainly don't need to ask the other Deli if they think there is a need for more Delis in the area. CONs are a large part of the healthcare problem....they are stifling competition. It would be great if I had influence on whether or not my competition could get a license to operate. I think the term for that is organized crime.   


"What you need is a fair market for actual competition to improve services and pricing, but you can’t get a fair market with less regulation and with less government to enforce it."

You cant get a fair market with less regulation and less gvt? So, the gvt has to create a fair market? How does it do that? Central planning has never worked for any country at any time in history. Markets are far too complex and gvt are far too corrupt for any sort of central planning to work. Just look at any place (wage control, rent control, education, poverty, welfare,etc) gvt has intruded into the market place. They create more problems and typically cause more of what they are trying to fix. The gvt needs to ensure there aren't monopolies in the market place. It doesn't need to pick winners and losers or attempt to level the playing field.   

"To get a chance at a fair healthcare market you would need to get the money out of politics so that people got elected for serving their constituents needs instead of corporate need."

No, you need to get the gvt out of the marketplace. In one sentence you state that you cant have a fair market without the gvt, now you say the gvt is is too corrupt to fix healthcare, then later you want a singlepayer??? You really want a single payer system? Much like the VA, the USPS, AMTRAK. Those are doing great,right? I think you are trying to have it both ways. You want to sound conservative, but your big gvt/liberal bias is screaming out between the lines.


   "Since that is all but impossible we could do the only thing that has worked for other countries and go to a single payer system. Since that is all but impossible…. you get the ACA and less people die and insurance rates don’t go up quite as fast as they used to but that is about it."

Just hand over your freedom to gvt and let them fix it! How about voting some of the thugs out and put gvt back into the constraints the constitution set up for them. Enumerated powers.   

Nothing you have mentioned has anything to do with obamacare which is all of 6 months old ,Certificates of need go back to the 50's... blaming obamacare for everything wrong with the medical industry, and in fact the country is the current strategy being employed by those who would control you to distract you from demanding any real changes. One side is negotiating with big business to allow some minor reforms in place, the other doesn't even bother to negotiate anything for the people in exchange for leaving the establishment unchecked they just collect their campaign contributions and turn over the keys. Neither is willing to implement the only solution that has ever been shown to work.   

if you don't think more government can solve the problem what do you think will? If the big guys cant crush competition through regulation they will do it though acquisition or intimidation.

Its your country, go out there an run it

Tim D wrote: I heard last week someone on Obamacare can see a specialist and their copay is $10. When I go it's $81.

There is no such policy as Obamacare, there are many different policies that are available and they vary greatly by market. Some of them undoubtably have 10 dollar copays for a specialist but the average out of pocket cost for a bronze level plan to visit a specialist was 34% of the cost of the visit.