Fuel Pump Fludding Carb |
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jasonmac23
Newbie Joined: September-01-2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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Posted: May-09-2014 at 11:38am |
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I have a ’91 Barefoot Nautique that I can’t get to run. Back story: Last summer I had to replace the starter, I put in the exact same type of starter that came out of the boat. Once I got the new started in, a new problem popped up. The fuel pump runs to prime carb when key is put into on position and does not stop when going to start, pumping to the point that it floods the carb so bad that fuel shoots out of the top of the carb when air breather is removed. I have put in a new Carter fuel pump and that turned out not to be the problem. I rebuilt the carb thinking maybe I had a bad float and/or bad needle/seat’s and while I was at it I replaced all gaskets on carb as well, basically a complete rebuild. Put the rebuilt carb back on and that didn’t fix the problem either. I have read some things before about an oil pressure switch that might be in line with the power source form starter solenoid. I have not gotten down to that yet, plan on looking for that soon. In the meantime, any advice that anyone can offer to help trouble shoot this issue would be greatly appreciated, thank you.
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Jason
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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Wait, so you have an electric fuel pump in there? Most of us have mechanical fuel pumps, which don't pump any fuel EDIT: when the motor is not running.
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JPASS
Grand Poobah Joined: June-17-2013 Location: Orlando Status: Offline Points: 2283 |
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can you post a pic of this fuel pump?
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'92 Correctcraft Ski Nautique
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backfoot100
Platinum Member Joined: January-03-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1897 |
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First off, you gotta back up and look at when the problem actually started....when you changed the starter!!!!!! Are you sure that you got the right rotation starter? I seem to remember a recent post about V-drive engine rotation and there was a lot of debate about when/where CC went from RH to LH rotation on the V-drives. I think the only way to positively confirm rotation was by the serial number of the engine. If you put the wrong rotation starter in there, that thing will never start and it's very possible fuel will spit out the carb if you're trying to turn it the wrong way! Where did you get the starer from and how did you determine it's the right one?
Secondly, your description of the fuel issue does make it sound like you have an electronic fuel pump that runs when you just turn the key on and not when you're trying to crank it over. That boat never had an electronic fuel pump so if one is on there, when and where did that happen at in relation to the new starter? |
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When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.
Eddie |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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Good call on the starter Eddie.
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jasonmac23
Newbie Joined: September-01-2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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Yes it has an electronic Fuel pump. If i remember correctly it was a RH rotation starter. I got the starter from Auto zone, but it was a marine starter that had matching model numbers. If it was the wrong rotation though, would it even crank at all? The boat came with the elecctronic fuel pump on it. Where would i locate the serial # of the engine?
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Jason
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jasonmac23
Newbie Joined: September-01-2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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I bought the boat used about 5 years ago.
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Jason
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hotboat
Gold Member Joined: March-28-2009 Location: Conn Lake Pa Status: Offline Points: 814 |
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Still going to need some picture under the hood. 351 or 454?
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Brian
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jasonmac23
Newbie Joined: September-01-2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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I will have to get some pics to post later. It has a 454.
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Jason
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hotboat
Gold Member Joined: March-28-2009 Location: Conn Lake Pa Status: Offline Points: 814 |
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Still going to need some picture under the hood. 351 or 454?
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Brian
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jasonmac23
Newbie Joined: September-01-2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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By the way, its flooding the carb, not fludding....oops.
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Jason
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jasonmac23
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Wouldnt it also be possible to deterime the rotation of the engine by looking at the serial # on the prop? and/or if it is stamped with a RH or LH?
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Jason
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hotboat
Gold Member Joined: March-28-2009 Location: Conn Lake Pa Status: Offline Points: 814 |
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Specs on the fuel pump? Where is the fuel coming out of the carb? Is there a pressure regulator on it does it need one? Likely needle n seat. Nice American Skier, there is a pristine one on our lake blue
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Brian
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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On the V-Drives, it's a little more complicated than that. Because, the transmission or the V drive unit may or may not change the direction of spin. That's part of what the discussion was about in the other thread.
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hotboat
Gold Member Joined: March-28-2009 Location: Conn Lake Pa Status: Offline Points: 814 |
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I dont remember any 91 barefoot or excel threads that the engine was not reverse rotation, the fact it has an electric pump on it tells me it could be a replacement engine with no provision for a mechanical pump although. Lets figure out if we have a rt hand rotation prop, tag on the motor, tag on the v-drive should be a walters 1.21 to 1 ratio. Confirm these when you can
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Brian
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jasonmac23
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Yeah, the American Skier was my first love! I completely restored it only to have it smashed by a drunk after only having it out about 6 times after completing restorations. Damn near killed me and three friends, luckely no one was hurt cuz we bailed out before impact. Then i bought this '91 BF with inssuance $$$ for next project. But now life has got in the way of that, so i am looking to sell it. But i want to get it running again before that, so as not to take a hit on a non-running boat.
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Jason
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jasonmac23
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I already put new needle and seat's in the carb in fact, i completely rebuilt the carb already.
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Jason
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backfoot100
Platinum Member Joined: January-03-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1897 |
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The prop will be RH. That was the end goal be a RH prop. Brian is correct about the tranny and/or V-Drive changing the rotation. The tranny may change it one way and the V-Drive change it again. That's what the discussion was about. The only way to know for sure is the serial number.
The serial number should be clearly marked on a tab someplace easily seen on the engine. I don't know for sure where that would be though. Yes, it will crank if it's the wrong rotation starter. It will crank it backwards though. I can't tell you how many times that's been done here by people who didn't know any better. Electronic fuel pumps can be problematic. Too much pressure would require a pressure regulator. It may or may not need it. Also electronic pumps are designed to have a return line to the fuel tank and be used with EFI which requires a lot more fuel pressure (like 40+lbs. vs. a carb that only needs 5-7lbs.). If this was retrofitted with a electronic pump, was it done coreectly is the biggest concern and then why was it done? It didn't have one to start with so why change it? Although a retrofitted or rebuilt engine could explain that too. The first thing is finding a serial number on the engine. We can go from there. As many pics as you can get would help too. |
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When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.
Eddie |
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hotboat
Gold Member Joined: March-28-2009 Location: Conn Lake Pa Status: Offline Points: 814 |
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You got lucky, I'm glad, where are you located? Often times brand new needle seats are bad, float adjustment can also cause this. Throw some pictures of the boat up or email me some, I'd love another 91
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Brian
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jasonmac23
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I live in north central Indiana, Kokomo Indiana to be exact. I know everyone here wants pics, i will get pics posted. the boat is still in storage at this time though. I plan on getting it out this weekend and i will snap some shots and get them up on here, along with locating the engine serial #. In the meantime i think i have some shoots somewhere that i am looking for now. I have been able to find out by going back to the Auto Zone where i purchased the starter that it was a model # 6616n starter. From what i can tell through looking that part up is that it has a counter clockwise rotation. I am assuming that translates to LH rotation, idk.
Eddie, I think your right. I am starting to believe that i might have installed the wrong starter, at least as far as the rotation is concerned. And yes, it was because "i didnt know any better" but i try to do the best and learn from my mistakes. and all of you in this thread are very helpful and i appriciate that, good info. This pic is copied from my diaries page, of the Barefoot |
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Jason
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jasonmac23
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Here are some pics of the American Skier after the accident.
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Jason
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Yup. Getting a starter at Autozone IS A BIG MISTAKE!!
Whats up with the electric fuel pump? What happened to the mechanical? |
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backfoot100
Platinum Member Joined: January-03-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1897 |
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Jason,
The rotation of the starter as it relates to which way the engine turns will depend on how it's mounted. If it's mounted in front of the flywheel, a CCW starter would spin the engine LH. That same starter mounted behind the flywheel will spin it RH(I think that's right anyway, or is it reversed????). Anyway, you get the idea. Pete is dead on too. You're always better off spending a little extra and getting a starter from a reputable marine dealer or someplace like SKIDIM or N3boatworks. We've just seen way too many issues from Auto Zones or Advanced Auto on stuff like this. Didn't mean to make it sound like the you're an idiot or anything like that either. It certainly wasn't meant to be disrespectful. |
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When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.
Eddie |
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fanofccfan
Platinum Member Joined: December-13-2009 Location: North Bend NE Status: Offline Points: 1774 |
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Electric is what you get for a 318 Chrysler according to Dave at hurrikane marine. The marine mechanical is NLA. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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First, he doesn't have a Chrysler and second, the mechanical is rebuildable and Dave must be smoking something! The mechanical Carter pumps are very available. |
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hotboat
Gold Member Joined: March-28-2009 Location: Conn Lake Pa Status: Offline Points: 814 |
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RIP to a rare boat |
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Brian
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jasonmac23
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Ok guys, unfoutunatly the weather here in Indiana was not cooperative and it stormed all weekend, so i was not able to get to the boat to get pics yet. I was wondering though, does anyone here know where i can find something that would be like the equivalent of a Chilton's Manual for the '91 Barefoot Nautique? Or anywhere that i can find some engine specs/diagrams?
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Jason
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jasonmac23
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Eddie,
The starter mounts in front of the flywheel. And it is a CCW starter, so i would assume from what your telling me that since that is the cass, it would be cranking the engine in a LH rotation, correct? That being said, obviously that puts me back to square one of locating the serial # of the engine to determine the engine rotation. Im guessing its gonna turn out to be RH. I didnt think you was being disrespectful, actually i was simply agreeing with you. And this whole deal is turning into a good learning experience. Thank you again for all of your help on this issue. I feel like i am starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel, as long as i can get some good weather here to get back into boat to work this out. |
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Jason
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Online Points: 6157 |
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The Electric pump was standard issue on some of the big block 91- Footers. I think it may have been a pro-tec carb thing. It's the same low pressure pump they used to supply the FCC on some earlier boats.
The closest thing you will find to a step by step service manual for your boat is tall the info stored inside the guys brains here on CCF.com. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11063 |
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Hi Jason
If you look right here on CCF at the reference section you'll find a "PCM engine manual for all Fords and Chevys (1989). As far as rotation of your engine you can easily find out if your starter is turning it the right way. On all 454 PCM engines whether they are normal or reverse rotation. the distributor rotor turns clockwise when looking from above so: Take off your distributor cap Crank the engine over and see which way the rotor turns If it turns clockwise you have the right starter If it turns counterclockwise you have the wrong starter. At least this will tell you if it's a starter issue. Ken O |
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