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Fuel Pump Fludding Carb

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oldcuda View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldcuda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-12-2014 at 11:07am
That's correct. when installing starter in BBC check distributor rotation it will always turn clockwise regardless of engine rotation.If not wrong starter.
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jasonmac23 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jasonmac23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-12-2014 at 11:13am
That sounds like a good idea, except for the fact that as Zach said, this boat has a Pro-tech ignition, so it does not have a standard distributor and rotor.
Jason
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldcuda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-12-2014 at 11:15am
Oops.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backfoot100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-12-2014 at 12:02pm
Originally posted by jasonmac23 jasonmac23 wrote:

Eddie,
The starter mounts in front of the flywheel. And it is a CCW starter, so i would assume from what your telling me that since that is the cass, it would be cranking the engine in a LH rotation, correct?


Yes, that should be correct. I'm pretty sure I'm of the same opinion as everybody else here in that I think it'll be a RH engine rotation on the BBC. Really need to confirm it by getting the engine serial number for sure.

Originally posted by phatsat67 phatsat67 wrote:

The Electric pump was standard issue on some of the big block 91- Footers. I think it may have been a pro-tec carb thing. It's the same low pressure pump they used to supply the FCC on some earlier boats.


Good call Zach,
I wasn't even thinking this could be a Pro-Tec engine. I knew Pro-Tecs were avaialable in '92, but wasn't sure about '91. Especially being a BB. Then the electronic FP does make sense. You learn something every day

When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-12-2014 at 12:08pm
Haha, Eddie, I am not that good. I just happened to know Mark's 91 BBC protec motor was originally an electric pump and his buddy TJs boat is still running the electric supply pump (also a 91 BBC protec motor).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-12-2014 at 12:25pm
Hi Again

Missed the Pro tec thing, probably because I was typing when Zach was posting.

Wouldn't have mattered, I know nothing about Pro tec other than it's easy to spell it and there is still a shaft that rotates clockwise.

There is some info in the 93 manual in the reference section like a wiring diagram and engine specs. Probably won't help you here though.

Like Eddie said at one point, you changed starters, then you had the problem and it's apparently never run again. I know what I'd be looking at.


KenO



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Foilhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-12-2014 at 2:19pm
All you gurus missed the fact that the ProTec has a sensor that sits in the dizzy hole to keep time, it should spin just like a dizzy. I don't have mine anymore, but I believe you can watch it work if you take off the plastic top.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-12-2014 at 2:30pm
That was assumed. I think the cap has something like two small black screws that hold it on from the sides?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jasonmac23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-15-2014 at 5:59pm
Got some pic's, finally!! Looks like the serial # is 333841. Made 6/25/90. It was hard to get good pics of the fuel pump due to its location. but this is what i got.
Jason
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2014 at 12:29am
Since the sensor (the replacement for the distributor) has a removable top have you taken it off to see which way the inner ring rotates when you crank the engine?

At least you'll know if you have the right starter or not and it should take just a few minutes.

Those casting numbers on the block won't tell anything about rotation of the engine.

It would have come with a bolted on tag (look in a PCM manual to see what it looks like) that would be helpful but I don't think I see it in your pictures

Ken O
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2014 at 2:06am
Hi again Jason

Up late puppy sitting, (and trying to help you out.)

A little research tells me that a 6616N starter is a counter clockwise rotating rear mount starter. That's a starter for a normal rotation chevy that mounts on the top of the bellhousing at the rear of the engine.

It can be REAL CONFUSING, but if you have a right hand engine and a rear mount starter, the starter needs to turn clockwise.

A picture of the starter mounted on the engine would be really good. If it mounts like a normal chevy car starter, then that part number doesn't make sense.

I'm guessing that on your v drive when you said it mounted in front of the flywheel you meant it's toward the front of the boat since the engine is in backwards.

And by the way I have a normal rotation PCM 454 with a CCW rear mount starter whose part number cross references with that 6616N so this is based on real stuff that I can look at.

In your case there's extra confusion cause it seems that you have a backwards rotating engine mounted backwards in the boat, so do the look at the sensor inner ring rotation like mentioned in the previous post.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jasonmac23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2014 at 9:52am
Ken,
Thats a good idea, but the problem with that is, if i pop that cap and hit the key to see what way it is rotating, it only going to tell me what way the engine is "trying" to crank now with the starter i put in. Which may or may not be the right one, that tells me nothing about what the engine rotation was prior to puting in the replacment starter.

Yes, the starter mounts towards the front of the boat on what would be concidered the back of the engine, with the starter nose pointing to the front of the engine(rear of the boat).

Does anyone know if it would be possible to see if the engine is cranking the right way or the wrong way, in its current state, by checking the alternator to see if it is giving a positive or a negative charge???

I mean everyone has givin me a lot of ideas on how to check the rotation as if it was new from the factory and running and i had never changed anything. But the fact remains that i have changed something before ever know what the normal rotation was. So now its a matter of finding out if its cranking the right way or the wrong way.
Jason
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2014 at 10:04am
Originally posted by jasonmac23 jasonmac23 wrote:

Ken,
Thats a good idea, but the problem with that is, if i pop that cap and hit the key to see what way it is rotating, it only going to tell me what way the engine is "trying" to crank now with the starter i put in. Which may or may not be the right one, that tells me nothing about what the engine rotation was prior to puting in the replacment starter.
\
Actually, it will. The rotor will turn clockwise on that 454 regardless of whether you have a RH or LH engine. If you pull the cap and see that its turning counterclockwise, then youre turning the engine backwards.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote baitkiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2014 at 10:09am
Did you mess with the plug wires?
If not then just check the firing order.
A normal LH engine is:
18436572.
#1 cylinder is stbd aft on your boat. Follow that wire to the cap and mark it. Clockwise the next wire would go #8 and so on and so forth. If not, then its a RH engine.
Another clue is to look at the intake manifold on the belt side of the carb. Many builders in that era actually ground off the cast firing order and sometimes even re-stamped it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jasonmac23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2014 at 10:26am
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Originally posted by jasonmac23 jasonmac23 wrote:

Ken,
Thats a good idea, but the problem with that is, if i pop that cap and hit the key to see what way it is rotating, it only going to tell me what way the engine is "trying" to crank now with the starter i put in. Which may or may not be the right one, that tells me nothing about what the engine rotation was prior to puting in the replacment starter.
\
Actually, it will. The rotor will turn clockwise on that 454 regardless of whether you have a RH or LH engine. If you pull the cap and see that its turning counterclockwise, then youre turning the engine backwards.


Did not know that, obviously right. That would certainly be a quick check to see if it is cranking the right way, thanks.

The firing order idea is a great one too. I did notice that the firing order was stamped on the block as well, so with those two strategies, I believe I can get this whole mess straightend out, thanks guys. I will update once ive ran those checks. Good info.!!
Jason
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2014 at 10:45am
Originally posted by baitkiller baitkiller wrote:

Did you mess with the plug wires?
If not then just check the firing order.
A normal LH engine is:
18436572.
#1 cylinder is stbd aft on your boat. Follow that wire to the cap and mark it. Clockwise the next wire would go #8 and so on and so forth. If not, then its a RH engine.
Another clue is to look at the intake manifold on the belt side of the carb. Many builders in that era actually ground off the cast firing order and sometimes even re-stamped it.

This wont work because he has the Protec ignition. There is no "cap" per se, so you cant follow it around to determine the firing order. There are individual coil packs mounted to the rear of the engine, and presumably they'd be in the same place on a LH and RH engine.

Just pointing out that KENO and oldcuda said the same thing about checking for rotor/sensor rotation earlier on, I just restated it. I recommend reading all posts from beginning to end, otherwise you stand to miss helpful information.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote baitkiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2014 at 10:50am
OK, how about water pump hose orientation? Didnt know that about the Projunk ignition.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JPASS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2014 at 11:27am
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:


This wont work because he has the Protec ignition. There is no "cap" per se, so you cant follow it around to determine the firing order. There are individual coil packs mounted to the rear of the engine, and presumably they'd be in the same place on a LH and RH engine.


If needed, I can take a pic of my Protec wiring tonight when I get home. Just let me know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Foilhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2014 at 9:54pm
The ProTec is a wasted spark system, it fires the spark for the plug on the compresion stroke and the opposite cylinder which is on the exhaust stroke at the same time. So it would fire 1 and 5, 2 and 6, 3 and 7, and 4 and 8 if the cylinders were to fire in order. You can plug your firing order in to that to figure out the wiring, top row would start with one, bottom row starts with 5, it doesn't care which way the engine rotates.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jasonmac23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-28-2014 at 10:39am
Update, finally got time to pull the rotor cap and bump the engine. It was turning counter clockwise, wrong starter. Got the right one ordered. should be an easy fix from here on out. Thanks again everybody for all of you help, much appreciated.
Jason
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jasonmac23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-02-2014 at 10:42am
Shes back in action!!!!!! Got the new(correct) starter in over the weekend, and she's running like a champ. Hate to have to do it, but now she's for sale. Got a baby on the way, so just need to liquidate.

Thanks again to all of you guys for the helpful advice and information. This has been a great learning experience for me, and i could not have done it without all of you and your expertise. Thank you!!
Jason
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