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enjoyinglife View Drop Down
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    Posted: July-14-2014 at 12:38pm
I just replaced my ignition switch and starter and cleaned battery cables and charged my battery. When I go to start my 1999 Super Sport, the first or second turn of the key, I get nothing. Not even a clicking sound. But when I turn the key a third time, the boat starts right up. It always starts but I get nervous when we are out in the middle of the lake. There must be a corroded wire or bad connection but I have no idea where to look. I have also been reading discussions about deep cycle batteries and starting batteries. Which is recommended for my boat?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Orlando76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-14-2014 at 12:46pm
You'll want a starting battery. How's the starter solenoid? Typically mounted top rear of older engines, modern ones idk. Sounds like it's going bad. My experience with them is so bad I almost want to carry a spare.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-14-2014 at 12:50pm
I was having the same issue this weekend and solved it by replacing my 1983 solenoid with one I had lying around from 1985 (should be good for at least another two years) That is not to say that you don't also have some low voltage or connection issues, but an weakening solenoid would also be more likely to be effected by a lower voltage supply. Considering it is the only part of the starting circuit outside of the wiring you didn't replace it is the likely next step. I was lucky enough to be able to repeat my problem with a voltmeter in hand or I probably would have replaced the same parts you did.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote enjoyinglife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-14-2014 at 1:17pm
I had to replace the switch and starter as the key stuck in the ignition and kept the starter running. By the time I disconnected the battery the starter was on fire. I'll check the solenoid. I am assuming that "starter battery" simply means a normal car battery. I believe I have a deep cycle. What are the concerns with a deep cycle?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HatterBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-14-2014 at 1:33pm
Deep cycle batteries are designed to drain down with moderate loads applied to it over a long period of time.

A starting battery is designed to take high loads at short periods of time.

Using either battery for what it is not designed for will give you poor performance. Besides it is difficult to find a good deep cycle that will provide the amount of cranking amps needed to turn these motors over as many times we normally start and stop over a long period of time. You are way better off with the staring battery.

I'm sure others will chime in as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-14-2014 at 1:41pm
You might not of had the key stuck. One of the side affects of using a deep cycle is that they weld the contacts in the solenoid keeping the starter turning
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote enjoyinglife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-14-2014 at 3:22pm
The solenoid is connected to the starter, correct? I replaced that with the starter.(included) Or is there an ignition solenoid located somewhere else?
When you talk about a starting battery, do you mean just a standard car battery? What cold cranking amps are recommended?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldcuda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-14-2014 at 5:22pm
May be a starter relay before the solenoid.Had same issue myself last week changed solenoid on starter next day no problem.600-650 cca marine starting is usually plenty.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote enjoyinglife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-14-2014 at 6:21pm
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

You might not of had the key stuck. One of the side affects of using a deep cycle is that they weld the contacts in the solenoid keeping the starter turning


I don't really understand the reasoning behind this. Can anyone explain. The reason my starter stuck was definately because of a faulty ignition switch as I had to break the key off to remove the ignition from the dash.
I am leaning toward changing the starter rely since its only $20.00
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-14-2014 at 6:29pm
Never mind--- I didn't realize it was a 99. Earlier engines have a separate relay/solenoid mounted on the rear of the engine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Orlando76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-14-2014 at 6:39pm
Originally posted by enjoyinglife enjoyinglife wrote:

Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

You might not of had the key stuck. One of the side affects of using a deep cycle is that they weld the contacts in the solenoid keeping the starter turning


I don't really understand the reasoning behind this. Can anyone explain. The reason my starter stuck was definately because of a faulty ignition switch as I had to break the key off to remove the ignition from the dash.
I am leaning toward changing the starter rely since its only $20.00
Gary was on the right track. The contacts in the solenoid can weld shut because of heat. Heat is caused by loose connection, low voltage, under sized wire. A Deep Cycle battery alone won't weld contacts shut but a weakened one will as well as a weak crank battery could. It's just deep cycles weaken easier when used to crank. I think you have/had 2 problems together. When the key toasted starter, the solenoid contacts were cooking too plus probably already weak.

For what it's worth, I almost always run a group 24 dual purpose with no problems (my solenoid problems are on another vehicle). I do this bc unrelated reasons. That's probably what you're running bc I don't think a group 27 deep cycle will fit. Have the battery checked, if it's ok I'd use it for rest of season.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-14-2014 at 6:43pm
if there is a starter relay and not a remote solenoid then yes by all means replace that
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-14-2014 at 7:20pm
There very well may be a remote solenoid as well as the one that's attached to the starter. I think many of the more modern ford motors are like this.

The remote should/would be under that black plastic cover on the back of the motor (towards the front of the boat on a V-drive) and look like this:
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KRoundy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-14-2014 at 9:12pm
Randy,

What you are describing sounds exactly what my engine was doing. I first replaced the starter but the same problem persisted. Sometimes just a click, sometimes it would start. I then replaced the starter solenoid which is pictured above and located on the back of my 1993 engine. My engine now cranks over with gusto on the first key turn every time. I was able to purchase the relay switch at a marina close to my home. Admittedly, it is a big store - but I'm just saying that on-line shopping is not your only option. I took in the old relay, they looked up the part number and gave me a new one right away.

And you don't need a deep cycle battery. Look at the specs in your owners manual. Going by memory, you need a regular group 65 battery (size) with 350 CCA's. I think I purchased a battery with something like 850 CCA's. DO NOT tell the person at the parts store you are buying it for a boat. They will try to give you a deep cycle battery all day long, but that is not what you need for a Ski Nautique. Somebody back me up on the group size and CCAs please.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote enjoyinglife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-14-2014 at 9:57pm
I am pretty sure the solenoid is on the starter but this is the relay I was thinking might be the culprit. I still have to confirm that the yellow wire from the starter connects to this relay. It's on the front of the motor. I am thinking about contacting tech support to get a wiring schematic. I will double check for a second solenoid as well.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote enjoyinglife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-14-2014 at 10:09pm
Below is a pic of my starter. Isn't that the solenoid on the top?
This is why I'm puzzled. I have replaced this whole unit plus the ignition and still it takes a few turns on the key to get the starter turning. Not even a click, just dead than after I return the key to the off position and 'retry' the boat starts right up.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldcuda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-15-2014 at 12:05am
Yep that's the solenoid I am not really familiar with the Fords/PCM but there is probably a relay in the circuit somewhere before the power gets to that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-15-2014 at 1:17am
Originally posted by enjoyinglife enjoyinglife wrote:

Below is a pic of my starter. Isn't that the solenoid on the top?
....



Yup. Well, that's one of them.

Originally posted by enjoyinglife enjoyinglife wrote:

I am pretty sure the solenoid is on the starter but this is the relay I was thinking might be the culprit. I still have to confirm that the yellow wire from the starter connects to this relay. It's on the front of the motor. I am thinking about contacting tech support to get a wiring schematic. I will double check for a second solenoid as well.




This one is for either the fuel pumps or ECM, not the starter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-15-2014 at 1:31am


This photo helps explain it a little.

On the older boats, this WAS the starter relay and the starter was just the starter, no relay attached to it. On the later Fords, this became the relay to the relay. Not sure why they kept using the old remote relays with the newer starters, maybe cause it was a hub for other electrical stuff.

But I'm guessing you have one of these guys in there behind the black square cover and if you do, it could be what's giving you problems.

That said, you want to get a starting battery too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KRoundy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-15-2014 at 3:03am
Randy - you are correct. That is a relay, not a solenoid. I still stand by the fact that I replaced that relay and I don't have the problems you are describing any longer. Your 99 might have a newer/different relay, but I bet that is the problem. That, and you have the wrong kind of battery.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote enjoyinglife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-21-2014 at 1:41pm
SCORE!!! I changed the remote solenoid under the black cover and my baby starts immediately. And for an encore I replaced the steering cable. Now I can steer her with one finger. Thanks for all your help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-21-2014 at 3:02pm
Nice

Glad to hear that worked out.
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