Building a house

you guys in other parts of the country sure do have some weird ideas . concrete without radiant? ductwork in a slab??

the only way through the floor ductwork is less efficient than thru floor is if you have some weird a** ductwork in slab...
as far as 95 + units go it is going to be all you can get soon enough. I love them because I make more $ on parts and i can charge more per hr for my training and knowledge.

peter1234 wrote: ductwork in a slab??

YUP... I've seen my share of ductwork poured in the slab, and under the slab for that matter.   Tends to grow mold, sweat, and gets crushed by the concrete... not my favorite Idea, but if Okie is decides to do a forced air system, it can be done well, just takes planning and good engineering... most of our floors are non radiant... just comes with the mild weather we have here.   I like the idea of it though, we have seen more installs in the last few years, but it's relatively uncommon.

peter1234 wrote: the only way through the floor ductwork is less efficient than thru floor is if you have some weird a** ductwork in slab...

not sure I get your question here, but I am curious about what you're asking/saying


Alan - maintenance like cleaning filters/heat exchangers and making sure your condensate pumps/lines are not all gunked up sure helps to make everything work better, that's what I was referring to.   old 80% furnaces just keep on running until they break. put a part or two in and then your good to go again. the basics are the same, but there is more stuff to go wrong on the HE units. Hot surface igniters are a wear item as Joe mentioned.   if one goes out, its a solid 150 for a service call here, plus the part. I'd keep one on hand.

I have electric baseboard at the cottage with a thermostat in each room up in the "Great White North" near Pete's place. The place is a small shack at around 1800-2000' with little insulation and single pane windows. I shut the place down around the middle of November but I start it up a few times most winters for a long week end. it draws around 150amps of 220 for quite a while until the place warms up. It is not a cheap heat source, but it is clean and easy. I just signed a contract with WE Energy last month to bring natural gas to the cottage. I expect significant savings. My $0.02 on tankless. If you don't have an almost mineral free water supply don't do it. Pete is right on on this. BTW, my Jotul Oslo wood stove will heat the whole place and saves some $ if you want to deal with it. I have a Heatalator fireplace in the living room as well. It heats the room to very hot but doesn't have an outside air source so it doesn't provide heat like the Jotul. I love a fire so no problem houling wood and ash for me.

Sounds about right, maybe a bit more if I dont burn the Jotul.

Have any of you had experience with spray foam insulation on the underside of the roof?

Okie Boarder wrote: Have any of you had experience with spray foam insulation on the underside of the roof?

this concept intrigues me. I checked into it for us and chose against it for several reasons. In fact, I just don't understand the benefits if any. I'm curious as to what others here have to say. One of main arguments is I feel as if I'd be cooling/heating my attic with my house. I want the insulation close to my living space so I'm cooling a lesser area.

Okie Boarder wrote: Have any of you had experience with spray foam insulation on the underside of the roof?

I have not but do know that it creates a hot roof problem. Lot's of debate on the subject but mostly negative. Put the insulation where it should be and that's against the living space and then have plenty of ventilation in the attic. Don't forget a vapor barrier.

Are you putting in a basement ? I assuming your not because your thinking concrete floors ?

where I grew up there are a lot of lake houses on slabs ( the ones right down by the water ). We did several remodels that we cut the concrete to place heat duct runs, not uncommon.

If I was building from scratch and on a slab I would insulate underneath and run radiant floor heat, its clean no blowing dust though out the house. You can run tubing any where like the shower floor and walls, towel bars, the driveway, front walk, etc.

just put down Persian rugs :) plus there is a infinite ways to color concrete.

In the typical home, air conditioning uses more electricity than anything else—16% of total electricity used.
There are ways to save on this and that is Fans, like a whole house fan, consider ac units that just cool particular rooms instead of the whole house.   You mentioned a metal roof they are the best because they reflect more heat where asphalt absorbs and its recyclable.

When I was in china I went to a Sears and walking through the Appliance section it was 2 stories tall and the one wall was just tank-less Water Heaters all the way up to the ceiling !! we are way behind in this field its slowly coming around.

When I remodel My master Bath I'm putting one in but you definitely want to filter the water before the unit.

As for insulating we have done all of the above, and again if I were doing it from scratch I would spray the walls with cellulose,and blown in in the attic and do the most R factor u can afford . Vent the soffits and have a ridge vent.

Stucco for the exterior

and last but not least a 3 car garage with tall ceilings, so you can have a car lift .   My $0.02

dochockey wrote:    tank-less Water Heaters When I remodel My master Bath I'm putting one in but you definitely want to filter the water before the unit.

You can not filter out dissolved solids (minerals).

dochockey wrote: spray the walls with cellulose,and blown in in the attic and do the most R factor u can afford . Vent the soffits and have a ridge vent.

Spray insulation is expensive especially poly foam. I investigated it when I built my shop up north. I ended up with 2x6 walls with standard fiberglass batts and insulating board sheathing resulting in a R-28. Then the attic was blown with 18" of glass resulting in a R-66. The concrete floor with hydronic was insulated with foam below as well as it's perimeter (important) resulting in a R-20. The shop is twice the size of my little cabin and the heating cost is 25% of the house. Calculating the spray foam cost VS: 2x6 walls resulted in a ROI of 21 years!! Spray foam is only beneficial when you have limited space (cavity) typically on existing construction or money to potentially waist!

Orlando76 wrote: y'all are way over engineering this. I have a 2200 living sq ft house with a well and lift pump on septic and my insulation is so thin my joist sit higher.... And last month my power bill was $97 tax, tag and title. I was gonna reinsulate but at that rate, why?

Todd,
Your living in Florida sure helps!

Okie Boarder wrote: I'm already considering the foam in the walls, but a subcontractor we work with, for work, told me about a friend that had the inside of the roof foamed, with no insulation in the ceiling. It was a retrofit job along with changing his ducting system from the floor (which was rotted out) to the attic. They foamed the underside of the roof, and removed the standard attic insulation. I'm not sure what they did as far as venting is concerned, but it sounded like it is working well. He mentioned that the attic temperature was in the 80 degree range on a 100 degree day, versus it being 120 on 100 degree day. Interesting thought and I could see how it might be a feasible idea.

Andy,
It sure sounds like he is air conditioning his attic now! Duct work can be insulated and preferred in a unconditioned space. Did his electric bill go up? ROI? Roof damage will not show up immediately after insulating the bottom of the roof deck. How long ago did he do it? BTW, I have insulated ducting in my attic and it's 0 degrees out now and dropping!

I have to kiss petes butt here and agree with everything he said.......god that hurt.
in New england the only time i have seen any foam under roof in attic is on very old homes id stick with good venting and insulate attic floor . by the way blown on the attic floor may be better r value than pink stuff but it sure makes any kind of future construction or any chance of using the attic for storage or maintenence a complete mess..

Okie Boarder wrote: Has anyone had experience with soapstone counters tops?

They are very porous,must be sealed and the sealer must be maintained.

its nothing like granite its more like slate in that it is as Pete said very porous. you may have seen old farm house sinks that are a grey black stone   that is soapstone.. i bet you will do a lot of chipping off the list when you find out all the expense of even a basic new construction. its unimagineable what things cost these days.. but always build with the basics if you have to but try and make the future upgrades easily doable later.