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Belt tension |
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Cumby 
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 Topic: Belt tensionPosted: July-10-2015 at 12:12am |
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I was having a squealing issue with my alternator belt on my GT 40 motor. Tightened it up pretty good last weak and it stopped until tonight when I got a some squeal at start up. I had probably between 1/4 to 1/2 inch play in it. I tightened it up again tonight using a wrench to give me some leverage. Pulled it about as hard as I could with that 12 inches wrench and now you definitely have to push harder on it to check the play. Didn't have a tape measure with me to see if it was less but it's definitely tighter. Just wondering, how do I know if it's too tight? Am I ok as long as I can get 1/4 inch play regardless of how hard I have to push. Also, is there not an adjustment in the other belt? It seems looser than the alternator belt...just didn't know if that's normal?
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99 Ski Nautique GT40
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8122pbrainard
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Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Posted: July-10-2015 at 7:30am |
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1/8" is a general rule of thumb. They do have spring loaded guides similar to a liniar tire pressure gauge but I've never used one. The only danger of over tightening is blowing the bearing on the alternator. What condition is the belt? Hows the alignment? After the engine starts is when the battery needs the charge and the alternator is under full load.
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Cumby
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Posted: July-10-2015 at 9:42am |
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It is a new belt but I see a lot of black dust under it where it has been wearing. Not sure how to check the alignment, but nothing appeared to be grossly off? When you check these things, is there a certain ant of pressure you try to give to the belt?
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99 Ski Nautique GT40
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8122pbrainard
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Posted: July-10-2015 at 7:49pm |
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Sounds like you have a alignment issue. Use a straight edge for the alignment. All four outside edges of the sheaves will touch the straight endge when the alignment is correct. Press in with your thumb for the 1/8". I'd guess at about 5 lbs. |
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Cumby
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Posted: July-10-2015 at 9:02pm |
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[/QUOTE]
Sounds like you have a alignment issue. Use a straight edge for the alignment. All four outside edges of the sheaves will touch the straight endge when the alignment is correct. Press in with your thumb for the 1/8". I'd guess at about 5 lbs.[/QUOTE] What makes you think alignment? If that's the case How do I correct? |
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99 Ski Nautique GT40
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MrMcD
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Posted: July-10-2015 at 9:28pm |
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The best way to set belt adjustment on these old boats that use a standard V belt is with a Boroughs Tension gauge. You clip them on the belt and then pull tension till you have proper adjustment and tighten the belt. Then remove the gauge. This is the only way to accurately set tension. In some cases the Boroughs gage will not fit and you are left to guess based on prior experience. I had a Boroughs gage for years, Gates, Dayco and Goodyear all sold then to repair shops. I lent mine out to a friend and it never came home.
Belts are not all created equal, make sure you are using a quality belt, a quality belt can pull more load without slipping. I would use a premium product made by Goodyear, Gates or Dayco, all three make good premium belts but be careful because all three also sell entry level price products that are about 1/2 the quality and 1/2 the price .but the parts stores will present them to you as Made by Gates to give you confidence.. Look at the sides of your belt, if it is shinny this is called glazing. A glazed belt can't bite the pulley and will slip and squeal. If the belt is new sandpaper the glazing off and re tension and it will be fine. A squealing slipping belt will heat up the pulley and do more damage than a tight belt. These old standard V belts allow 1/8 inch per foot out of alignment so if you are pretty close by an eyeball check you should be good. |
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8122pbrainard
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Posted: July-10-2015 at 11:41pm |
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"A lot" of black dust doesn't come from a few squeals when starting. |
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8122pbrainard
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Posted: July-10-2015 at 11:47pm |
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Plus use one of their cogged belts. Going around a small diameter sheave like the one on an alternator isn't easy. The cogs really grip and you do not need to tension the belt as much. To give you an example of the gripping of a cogged belt, they can't be used in a clutching application. |
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MrMcD
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Posted: July-11-2015 at 12:42pm |
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Goodyear is the only belt manufacturer offering a cogged belt that I know of.
Dayco offers a top cog belt but that is to help with heat dissipation. |
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8122pbrainard
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Posted: July-11-2015 at 12:58pm |
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They all do in industrial (A,B,C etc. sections) When ever I can, I always cross over to A belts. Also, I just bought some cogged for my 302 at Napa. |
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Cumby
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Posted: July-11-2015 at 8:49pm |
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"A lot" of black dust doesn't come from a few squeals when starting. [/QUOTE] when I first checked it, it was extremely loose,,,to the the point that I could spin the alternator pulley freely without the belt turning. Couldn't running it for a while that loose cause black dust to build up? |
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99 Ski Nautique GT40
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8122pbrainard
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Posted: July-11-2015 at 9:22pm |
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Glen,
It seems you don't believe that the alignment could be off! Just check it! It won't hurt!  
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1980nautique
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Posted: July-11-2015 at 9:37pm |
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Pete if his belt alignment isn't off should we have him check for rusted pulleys they chew up belts pretty quick too!!!!!
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Cumby
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Posted: July-11-2015 at 9:58pm |
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No, just hoping it's as simple as tightening it up. Is there an adjustment somewhere to align the pulley if it is out? |
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99 Ski Nautique GT40
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8122pbrainard
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Posted: July-11-2015 at 10:31pm |
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Glen,
For some reason belt alignment even from the factory was never the greatest. The most common is with the RWP's. I feel many times it's caused by the position of sheaves on the shafts when they are pressed on. There isn't really an adjustment so it must be done with adding washers or shortening existing spacers. |
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Cumby
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Posted: July-11-2015 at 11:56pm |
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Trying to picture where to put the straight edge. When you say the sheaves are you talking about the edges of the pulley that hold the belt in place? |
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99 Ski Nautique GT40
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8122pbrainard
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Posted: July-12-2015 at 12:13am |
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Yes, You want any V belt to go in a straight line. They are not designed to bend sideways. |
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63 Skier
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Posted: July-12-2015 at 2:45am |
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My GT-40 alternator belt was squealing a bit at startup, like Pete said that's when the alternator really pulls a load as it charges up the depleted battery. The belt had run less than a full season, I tightened it and it squealed less but still a bit. I broke the glaze on the belt with a wire brush (maybe sandpaper is better, not sure) and squealing was gone and hasn't come back.
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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wataugasn84
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Posted: July-12-2015 at 2:12pm |
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Alignment ,dust is a big clue. I even had my belts on completely wrong and ran them that way for a while. Completely meaning wrong belt on water pump and alternator had them switched.
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Watuugasn84
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Cumby
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Posted: July-18-2015 at 8:38pm |
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Ok Pete, it does appear that it's not lining up dead on. Just eyeballing it I can't see it but I took a level and laid it on the outer edger of the flat surface of both pulleys and had a little rocking when I tried to get all 4 points to touch. It did squeal a little when I first started it up today but got quiet after that the rest of the day.
My question is how do I know if it is too far out of alignment, to the point I need to adjust..:.if I get the black dust building up again? Also, what do I actually align? You mentioned adding/removing washers or spacers. I can't visualize where you would do that and how to actually adjust it. Oh, and there didn't appear to be much, if any rust in the groove on the pulley. Thanks |
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99 Ski Nautique GT40
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8122pbrainard
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Posted: July-18-2015 at 8:57pm |
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Glen,
If you can see the misalignment then it does need work. The straight edge should touch all the edges of the sheaves. Lets say the alternator needs to move forward then a washer between it and it's bracket or mounting hole will move it forward. How about some pictures ? |
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Cumby
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Posted: July-18-2015 at 10:02pm |
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To make sure in understanding, the straight edge is placed on the sides, not on top of the actual grooves where the belt is running correct?
It can only be adjusted in it out on the mounting pin? When I looked at it, it seemed like it might be slightly rotated on a transverse axis somehow? Didn't get any pictures. I'll have to see if I can get some next time. |
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99 Ski Nautique GT40
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8122pbrainard
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Posted: July-18-2015 at 10:48pm |
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Cumby
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Posted: July-19-2015 at 10:46am |
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Great Pictures! In the below one, C. is what Im wondering about. How would washers help with that?
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99 Ski Nautique GT40
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jhersey29
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Joined: February-20-2014 Location: Colorado Status: Offline Points: 272 |
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Posted: July-19-2015 at 12:06pm |
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You can cause that type of.misalignment by unevenly prying on the alternator when tightening the.belt Check the bracket mount to the engine and make sure it is tight. Take the belt off and see if you can set the alignment with out the belt and tension pulling it at an angle. If your using a pry bar don't from the back of the alternator.
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8122pbrainard
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Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Posted: July-19-2015 at 12:25pm |
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Glen,
I couldn't get your link to work but feel you are thinking about a twist/angle issue with say the alternator. Jim is correct that there are times when bracket need to be bent. He's also correct that pry bars can get you in trouble when tensioning. I like to use a strap wrench around the alternator. RWP's don't need as much tension. Unlike an alternator and due to the reduction, the RWP has got a large sheave give the belt plenty of wrap for gripping. |
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Cumby
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Joined: February-03-2014 Location: Upstate SC Status: Offline Points: 209 |
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Posted: July-19-2015 at 3:07pm |
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I think it seemed slightly angled away from the other pulley, not in the direction the belt would pull it...not sure. I'll have to take a closer look when I get a chance. I'll pull the belt off and see if it will align without tension. Should there not be any play in the mounting bolt when belt is off?
Is there a safe place to pry or pull on the alternative when tensioning the belt? I used a long wrench, not a crow bar. |
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99 Ski Nautique GT40
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8122pbrainard
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Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Posted: July-19-2015 at 3:39pm |
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Glen,
The straight edge will tell where the misalignment is. I suggest not trusting your eyes. Long wrench or crow bar is the same. They apply pressure to spots where you can damage the alternator. I remember seeing an alternator that the housing was cracked from prying to tension the belt. The safest place to apply pressure is on the sheave itself. |
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Cumby
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Joined: February-03-2014 Location: Upstate SC Status: Offline Points: 209 |
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Posted: July-19-2015 at 5:29pm |
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You run it across the sheaves, horizontally somehow?
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99 Ski Nautique GT40
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Gary S
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Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Posted: July-19-2015 at 5:57pm |
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Very first picture in Pete's link
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Cumby wrote: