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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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Posted: January-19-2016 at 8:18am |
I've been experiencing an issue with my GT40 (20 annyversay) in a no CC boat for the last few months.
After a really great running summer, I stored the boat for 2 months on winter, as soon as I started this season it developed a slight miss or hiccup, more noticeable at planning speeds, as a random cylinder didnt fire. sometimes it was really rough and for some running periods it was barely noticeable or did not occur. Some days boat started great and started missing after a 10 minute period run. My first thought was a fuel issue, so I drained the FCC, changed the filter, cleaned checked the LPF screen. Checked fuel pressure, 35psi at idle, noticed a quick drop to 0 after shutdown, so I replaced the FPR. pressure now drops slowly to 10psi, but issue still present. Also gave the injectors a bath in the ultrasonic cleaner, replaced all orings. Also started using premium grade fuel, and draining the FCC on each outing to eliminate any alcohol/water. No antisiphon valve is installed. Also thought after some months of storage in a closed humid enviroment such as the motor box, I thought on moisture affecting the electrical/ignition, so I did thew following: Checked on cap and rotor, no visible cracks or corrosion on posts. Switched the FP and ECA relays, made no difference. Checked spark plugs, all 8 are more carbon coloured than tan, (boat's a bit overpropped) Sprayed contact cleaner on ignition, ECA and sensor connectors. Also ran the boat without the tach to discard it messing the ignition. Ran the boat with both the oil pressure and temperature switches disconnected. Last time out, boat was really low on power, So I checked compression and all soldiers are in great shape at 150psi, but i'm still clueless on what to try next. Situation being a scanner is locally unavailable, and parts are really hard to get by, I 'd appreciate to get some advise and guidance on what to check or test next.. thanks in advance. |
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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I would suspect spark plug wires. I think there is a way to check them with ohm meter, might want to google that.
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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fanofccfan
Platinum Member Joined: December-13-2009 Location: North Bend NE Status: Offline Points: 1777 |
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I am as far from an expert as the moon. I had one acting similarly a few years back. It ended up being a loose wire on one of the fuel injectors. Where the wire went into the plastic snap connector fitting(cant think of the term) it was not seated all the way. Once in a while it would lose connectivity and sputter. It acted like a "short". I do remember it was absolute luck that we found it!
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Chris is correct but you want to use a mega ohm meter. The difference is it sends high voltage through the wires. It will also detect if there's any spots in the insulation where the power is shunting to ground such as a wire bracket/holder. Even though I'm always preaching testing first, in this case, it's probably just as easy to put a new set on. |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13514 |
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gee a cap and rotor sure is cheap and they do go bad
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quinner
Grand Poobah Joined: October-12-2005 Location: Unknown Status: Offline Points: 5828 |
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Are the Cap and Rotor on a GT-40 the same as the Automotive counterpart?? Could make it way easier/cheaper for him finding parts.
On my Excalibur they are the same - not marine specific |
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lewy2001
Grand Poobah Joined: March-19-2008 Location: NSW Australia Status: Offline Points: 2234 |
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Luch plugs, wires, cap & rotor would be my first move.
They are standard Ford automotive parts on the GT40. There is a after market scanner available for the Gt40 that is very cheap. Probably cheaper than any of the tune up parts. EEC1V Code Reader Scanner |
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If you're going through hell, keep going
89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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It seems that Motorcraft caps for cars have aluminium contacts and PCM caps use brass. The automotive ones also have a removeable cap at the #1 contact and for some reason that the PCM ones do not. My 95 had an aluminium one on it when I got it and it ran fine.
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lewy2001
Grand Poobah Joined: March-19-2008 Location: NSW Australia Status: Offline Points: 2234 |
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Gary I think most of the quality dizzy caps are still brass terminals. I purchased a Accel cap and rotor kit for mine it has the rubber cap next to number 1 like you described.
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If you're going through hell, keep going
89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
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kapla
Grand Poobah Joined: March-27-2008 Location: BA, Argentina Status: Offline Points: 6148 |
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either way they are not on the shelf at local parts store...351w were never sold down here...so parts have to be imported from the US.
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<a href="">1992 ski nautique
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lewy2001
Grand Poobah Joined: March-19-2008 Location: NSW Australia Status: Offline Points: 2234 |
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Luch another thought with all this talk of distributor caps have a look inside dissy. Give the stator (PIP hall effect sensor) assembly a twist and see if it moves the plastic gets brittle and breaks down over time.
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If you're going through hell, keep going
89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
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lewy2001
Grand Poobah Joined: March-19-2008 Location: NSW Australia Status: Offline Points: 2234 |
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Kap I use Amazon to get most of my Ford parts from the states. We have on the shelf parts for the 351W in Aus but still cheaper to import from the US in a lot of cases. The freight is very cheap no more expensive than local shipping. I think they have a multiple warehouses scattered in different countries.
Must have one in Australia maybe Argentina has one also |
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If you're going through hell, keep going
89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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the Motorcraft oem's are aluminium Mark,anywhere to save a penny. Kap,I think a fuel injected Ford 5.0 (302) of 1990-1993 vintage uses the same cap if you have those there |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Slight thread jack here: Mark, What's the "PIP"? I'm only familiar with PNP and NPN. I tried looking up the PIP and couldn't find anything. |
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lewy2001
Grand Poobah Joined: March-19-2008 Location: NSW Australia Status: Offline Points: 2234 |
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Profile Ignition Pickup (PIP) a PCM GT40 terminolgy not a electrical acronym. The GT40 uses a hall effect sensor and a slotted cup on the distributor shaft to determine crankshaft position and rpms. |
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If you're going through hell, keep going
89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Mark,
Thanks. Got it! No wonder why I couldn't find an answer searching electrical acronyms. Having used plenty of sensors with ether PNP or NPN logic, I thought there was a new one on me! |
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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Dead on!!!! managed to fix the stator in position and boat pèrformed great all day. No doubt this should go in the GT40 chart. Thanks Lewy! Thanks to all for the advise given as well. |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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I'll add this one to the GT-40 Diagnosis thread and spreadsheet.
So, is the fix to replace the PIP, replace the dizzy, or just figure out some way to secure the PIP in place? |
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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In my case, just fixing the stator into position solved the issue. |
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kapla
Grand Poobah Joined: March-27-2008 Location: BA, Argentina Status: Offline Points: 6148 |
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Hey Lucho, glad you got the issue squared out! Saw some pictures on Fb that made my figure yo had fixed your boat!
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<a href="">1992 ski nautique
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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Ok cool.
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lewy2001
Grand Poobah Joined: March-19-2008 Location: NSW Australia Status: Offline Points: 2234 |
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To change the stator assembly is a quite a big job. If you can manage to secure the original assembly without changing it is a bonus. I was thinking of a product like "plastex" but a super glue may get you out of trouble for a little while. To change stator it requires removing dissy pressing gear of the shaft and removing. (The dissy shaft goes through the centre of the stator assembly). |
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If you're going through hell, keep going
89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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Just wanted to add that locking the stator in place also solved a jumping tachometer that i've experienced since owning the boat,
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Keuka 95 GT40
Newbie Joined: July-22-2014 Location: Penn Yan NY Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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Hi Luchog - just reading this post and want to clarify the fix you used. I have a 1995 GT40 with very similar problems last summer. Boat runs great most of the time but occasionally it will miss-fire and hesitate after pulling first 2-3 sets of the day.
So "fixing the stator into position" solved the problem ? |
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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In my case it did. But the failure was consistant. Have you done a complete tune up? |
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ScottZ
Platinum Member Joined: January-20-2004 Location: Clanton, AL Status: Offline Points: 1154 |
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I have replaced the distributor assembly. That is the quickest solution.
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Scott Zuelzke
Lake Mitchell , AL 1984 Ski Nautique 1972 Skier |
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Keuka 95 GT40
Newbie Joined: July-22-2014 Location: Penn Yan NY Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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a complete tune up has not been done in several years. I will need to check with my father on dates of service. Any recommendations on what should be addressed in a complete tune up ?
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74Wind
Grand Poobah Joined: August-02-2011 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 2101 |
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Alright. .another Keuka Fan! Live in town or on the lake?
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1974 Southwind 18
1975 Century Mark II |
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Keuka 95 GT40
Newbie Joined: July-22-2014 Location: Penn Yan NY Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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My family has been on the lake for over 40 years. We are spread around the northeast now but Keuka is always the destination of choice over the summer.
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74Wind
Grand Poobah Joined: August-02-2011 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 2101 |
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And a great choice indeed! Where's your place? My family has been there since the Revolutionary War. I live in Georgia now, but we get to Keuka every summer, we have a family cottage on West Bluff that's been there forever....... My brother also lives year-round on west bluff up near the park,, and my mother lives by the college.. There's another CCFan "Keuka" in Hammondsport,, lives in the village I think. |
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1974 Southwind 18
1975 Century Mark II |
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