Distributor Stuck - Yuck |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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I'm no CC historian by any means and I'm sure Tim will correct me if I'm wrong... but I don't think they used "lefties" in '86.
I would almost bet the house its a right hand'er if it is indeed stock. |
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H2oXtremes
Groupie Joined: December-03-2008 Location: Mayville, MI Status: Offline Points: 67 |
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My boat is an 85. I have had confusion on this topic talking with several marine and auto mechanics before purchasing my distributor.
If standing in front of my engine at the ski pole my crank is turning clockwise or right rotation, which means if I would be standing behind the engine the flywheel is turning to left or counter clockwise (standard rotation). Engine rotation is determined by the direction of the flywheel. I cannot speak for an 86 rotation but based on two different mechanics and two different online ordering sites they all said I def have a left handed rotation. Even after telling them the year and make of my boat they all said the same. So i am pretty confident. |
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1985 Ski Nautique 2001
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Jeremy,
Adding the "clockwise" "counterclockwise" terms helps. You have a standard rotation "lefty" engine. |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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'85 or '86 As Pete said if it is spinning the direction you say it is a lefty. And I would have to bet it is not the original engine. Is there an engine ID/firing order placard on the motor ( usually located around the left rear intake or head.) Do you have a 1:1 transmission? (Just wondering about lean with a 1:1 and a lefty engine) |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Jeremy,
A thought just came to mind on the rotation! Is the engine running? I ask since we have had several come to the site with problems starting their engines after they have gone to some place like Autozone and purchased the wrong rotation starter!!!! |
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H2oXtremes
Groupie Joined: December-03-2008 Location: Mayville, MI Status: Offline Points: 67 |
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Yes my boat starts fine, I have never touched the starter. I know the previous owner said he did replace it once. I have had this boat for 10 years and never had an issue.
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1985 Ski Nautique 2001
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H2oXtremes
Groupie Joined: December-03-2008 Location: Mayville, MI Status: Offline Points: 67 |
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OK so you guys have me questioning myself. I've not been to my boat just yet this season but I was looking at some random pictures of my boat and noticed my boat prop. In the picture below it appears my prop based on the pitch angle would spin clockwise or right... but then click the engine picture and looking at the water pump pulley I have a blue arrow painted on it that shows the direction the front of the engine would turn.
I have been told not to never assume the prop rotation as the engine rotation due to the gearing in the transmission. My transmission is a 1:1 borg warner velvet drive. Thoughts? Engine Prop |
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1985 Ski Nautique 2001
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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A 1:1 Borg Warner cannot change direction from input to output,ie if it turns left going in it will turn left out and vice versa. So in your case you have a prop that gets forward thrust by turning right. So your input to the trans has to be right hand turning engine. We know that for sure because you have used the boat in the past with this engine trans and prop. If you look at your prop it will most likely have a RH stamped into it too. Now in 89 I think they started using left handed engines when PCM came out with their own transmissions. The new trans included a angled output shaft which let the engine sit more level but it also reversed output internally. A standard lefty engine,same as an automotive engine now turned the prop to the right. You engine is a right hand turning engine. The right hand rotation camshaft has a gear that changes the direction of the oil pump and distributor so that they turn the same as direction as a left handed engine and that is why you need a distributor that is for a right hand engine. The gears will not match up when you go to install and will not let you put it in.
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H2oXtremes
Groupie Joined: December-03-2008 Location: Mayville, MI Status: Offline Points: 67 |
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I agree Gary that if my engine is right turning and if my Borg Warner transmission doesn't change rotation at the output end, then how do you explain my engine rotating right or clockwise when viewing the engine from the front? If my engine was a right turning engine even at the prop end than standing in front of the engine my crankshaft pulley would be turning left but its not doing that they are turning right.
Here is an interesting forum I have found. Sounds like this guy has the same issue I face. Link |
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1985 Ski Nautique 2001
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H2oXtremes
Groupie Joined: December-03-2008 Location: Mayville, MI Status: Offline Points: 67 |
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1985 Ski Nautique 2001
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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That firing order 18456273 is for a RR engine. Looking at the front of the engine, it will turn CCW. That in turn makes the prop turn CW when standing behind the boat looking forward. You will have to have a RR starter and a RR dist gear IF they indeed rebuilt is as a RR engine. That can be verified by checking the firing order as the engine is turned over by hand and watching the valves open and close. If the dist is out then you can also look at the gear on the cam. The dist gear should have teeth like this \\\\\\. If it fits then you have a RR (Reverse Rotation) engine |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Jeremy, That tag has some "R"'s in it!! |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11087 |
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Hi Jeremy
Gary and Duane gave you what you need to know unless you have a Borg Warner 1:1 "Magic Trans". Besides what they mentioned if you look at your engine picture and spend a little time looking at the plug wires on your distributor cap (knowing that your distributor rotor turns counterclockwise no matter which way the engine rotates) it's obvious that your firing order is for a RR engine. You don't need to know what plugs the wires go to in your picture only which side of the engine they go to. Look back at a thread titled "impeller change" from about a year ago where you forgot which way your water pump should be installed and if you can remember how you put it back in, that will help you too. KenO |
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H2oXtremes
Groupie Joined: December-03-2008 Location: Mayville, MI Status: Offline Points: 67 |
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Well thank you all for your input, I guess since I already have the new distributor for a left handed engine in a box ready to go I will have to get to my boat and really be 100% certain that my engine is turning left or right. It sucks that it is 4 hours away but at least I will have an answer this weekend of which way its really going.
The previous owner or at least someone even etched with a sharp object into one of the pulleys the rotation that they are turning. Maybe my engine was rebuilt at one time I don't know for sure. Also I have read many other blogs on diff sites that the rotor rotation doesn't always tell the engine rotation.. As far as my water pump installation I know that is working correctly. picture of that is below of how I installed it. Water Pump |
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1985 Ski Nautique 2001
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Here is a tip Jeremy- stay off those other sites your water pump mounting confirms it a righty,as does the trans and prop. Not many people are familiar with right hand engines but since Correct Craft used them for many years,many here are used to them.
Post up a picture of your new distributor and it's gear please |
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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[QUOTE=H2oXtremes] Also I have read many other blogs on diff sites that the rotor rotation doesn't always tell the engine rotation../QUOTE]
The rotor turns CCW in EITHER engine. That won't tell you anything. Stay off the other sites for Correct Craft info. As stated above & Post a pic of the distributor |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21182 |
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It'll tell him if his starter rotation is correct (if the rotor is spinning clockwise, he's cranking the engine backwards), but assuming the engine runs, you're right- rotor direction wont be enlightening (it's spinning ccw if the engine runs). If the engine runs, you'll new to confirm which way it spins. If it doesn't run, a picture of the distributor gear would tell the story. All signs point to it being a RH engine as would have been installed from the factory. |
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H2oXtremes
Groupie Joined: December-03-2008 Location: Mayville, MI Status: Offline Points: 67 |
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I am trying to stay off the other sites, but this topic seems to one the worlds greatest wonders in the auto distributor world. after hours of googling I cannot believe there is no clear answer on engine rotation. Everyone has a diff view on this topic.
Even if I knew my engine rotation it seems some order sites will show a right handed distributor in the photo with the same slant in gear as my new left handed distributor. My receipt from skidim shows its LH but on other sites the same distributor for a right hand rotation has the slant the same direction as a left and a right handed one costs 100.00 more. SMH So staying off other sites, I found a topic on this on this site about a 70's 302... people on here commenting that the distributors will still work if I just swapped out the gears. I am not sure if thats just for the 302 or will that work with the 351? Here are a few pictures of my current brand new (LH) distributor. New Mallory New Mallory 2 New Mallory 3 |
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1985 Ski Nautique 2001
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21182 |
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Auto and marine use different LH and RH conventions. Marine views from the rear and auto views from the front.
Stop confusing yourself and stick with the info shared here. It will be correct. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11087 |
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A gear swap will be all you need. You have to make sure it's a RR gear for a 351W Mallory distributor. (The 302 has a smaller diameter shaft and a gear with a smaller ID) It needs an inside diameter of .531 inches to fit the 351w Mallory distributor shaft You can go search around the internet or you could ask here and somebody would probably give you a Mallory part number like 9-26825. then you could verify that that's the right one Also your old Prestolite gear on your present distributor would work with a new hole drilled in the gear to position the gear at the right spot on the shaft on the new Mallory |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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Gee guess I was right.
I have the same distributor on my '85 all I did was swap the gear from my old distributor. As others stated don't listen to the other forums we will steer you in the right direction, there is more knowledge on this site than all the others put together. Also you may want to find a new mechanic if he told you it was a lefty. |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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IMOH it would be best to return the brand new unit and pony up for the correct one. It will be a drop in then and won't mess up any warranty or return. Jeremy may not have the tools or know how to do it himself and if it needs to be taken in to be done,that's not free either. |
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H2oXtremes
Groupie Joined: December-03-2008 Location: Mayville, MI Status: Offline Points: 67 |
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Well I spoke to Vince at Skidim this morning and I ended up buying a new right handed distributor and will take both with me this weekend to my boat. I agree the extra hundred is worth the peace of mind of just having it done. So next challenge is well hoping the old one doesn't strong arm me to much in removing its rusted self out of the block.
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1985 Ski Nautique 2001
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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Take some Emory cloth and some O-ring lube with you.
Once you get the old dizzy out clean the opening up with the Emory cloth and put some lube on the opening/intake and the O-ring on the distributor. Make sure to mark the orientation of the rotor on the old one and install the new one the same. |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Your engine looks so clean in the water pump shot I don't think it will be that stuck. I think you'll be fine
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H2oXtremes
Groupie Joined: December-03-2008 Location: Mayville, MI Status: Offline Points: 67 |
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Sooooo what happened? I was able to get my old distributor out today pretty easy honestly. and I installed my new Mallery distributor and wired it as the hand drawn discount inboard marine layout showed. I did have a couple questons so I called I Vince at Discount to verify I was doing this right. My original distributor only had two wires, One going to the negative coil post and the other to the positive coil post.
The new one has one green that goes to the negative coil post the red would go to the resistor. the brown is the ground. I had Vince on the phone and he walked me thru the wiring. However I told him well currently I have two wires on one post of the resistor and the other post has no wires. Needless to say he had me wire it just as the diagram showed. I went to turn over my engine after all installed and wired... and turn the key and all I hear is one quick pop or click from the rear of the boat engine and now I have no power at all to my boat. It didnt turn over just pop or click... I noticed a breaker there at the end of the engine block but i tried to reset it but still nothing. Any ideas? |
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1985 Ski Nautique 2001
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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The RED one goes to the 12 volt side of the resistor. That is the side that is switched from the ignition switch. The other side of the resistor goes to the + side of the coil.
GREEN from dist to the - side of coil BROWN from dist to engine ground Red wire always gets 12 volts when switch is on Green wire from dist is the "trigger" to activate the coil Brown wire grounds to dist. coil is fed by resistor, usually about 8 volts |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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H2oXtremes
Groupie Joined: December-03-2008 Location: Mayville, MI Status: Offline Points: 67 |
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Yea I had it wired all correctly, it ended up being my negative battery terminal was loose. It started and worked just fine after that. I just thought it was odd when i turned my key I lost all power to my gauges and everything and it never came back. But they all worked fine until I turned the key.
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1985 Ski Nautique 2001
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Jonny Quest
Grand Poobah Joined: August-20-2013 Location: Utah--via Texas Status: Offline Points: 2967 |
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The first link is for standard rotation. If you need reverse rotation, then you need this one JQ |
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Current
2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
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TracyB
Newbie Joined: June-07-2016 Location: Hot Springs, AR Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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Jonny,
I'm looking at buying the DUI for my '72 SN. I'm coming up with PN M35820RRBL. What is the difference in this one and the one in your link (DUI-M12720RRRD) ? These reverse gears must be made to order, lead time is a month out for RH rotation. |
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Tracy B
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