Damler Chrysler

Today we are in a global economy, like it or not. There will be no reverting back to how it "used to be".

well with toyota talking about scaling back wages and bennefits, they just may open the doors for the UAW to walk in. It's already in are paper here in Detriot that workers for toyota when on record as wanting the union down there. It's only a matter of time I think.

Oh yeah anyone else see the ma$$ recall of one honda's high end cars. Recalled all of last years production do to electrical problems. I guess they have problems to, ma$$ produce cars and quality slips. It happens, fact of life. This problems are going to be more and more frequent for Honda and Toyota.

eric lavine wrote: bkh, why do you think Honda and Toyota set up shop in our back yards? Im asking this as without sarcasm and want to hear your opinion.

Eric,

I have not done the research to know why Honda or Toyota may have set up shop specifically in Ohio.

More generally, all of these companies established manufacturing facilities in the United states to make more money. End of story. Since the United States places ridiculous tarrifs on foreign auto makers, it was more profitable to set up shop in the US, even with our high labor rates, than to manufacture elsewhere and import. Of course, this makes it all the more ironic that American Car companies, in spite of the fact that they don't pay tarrifs, still can't compete and so they are going offshore to reduce costs of manufacturing.

Once the decision is made for the foreign company to manufacture in the US, the location may be chosen for many reasons. Again, almost always related to maximizing profit. In some cases states have offered tax breaks or other financial incentives to entice the company (Alabama for example). Sometimes, the manufacturer takes advantage of an existing facility which has been closed (Nummi in CA for example). BKH

This is really good stuff guys. I know that this topic has probably caused a lot of feuds and certainly a lot more hard feelings because of friends and family who ended up on the short end of the stick because of it. I would just like to thank everybody for being so level headed on the subject and open to hearing the other side of the story.

Eric, I've always had the same feelings about the profits going oversea's but I never thought about the points that BKH brought up. They make a lot of sense to me. I do have a comment though as to the discussion about where the company decides to locate. This is one thing that I would have to disagree on from BKH is the paying taxes portion that he stated. I know of a lot of companies that made deals with cities (and I know you all have heard these too) that they would only pay a dollar per year for property taxes or something rediculously low like that just to get the company to put the plant in that city. Of course, it only means that he work force is spending more money in that same city. Then you have all the tax breaks that a company receives from the gov't.

As for 87BFN comments. If the company is looking at scaling back and asking for concessions from the workers, I don't know what a difference a union would make for them. It's been proven that union workers have been making huge concessions across the country for the past few years to stay in business. If the company doesn't get the concessions it wants, it will either have to close the doors or relocate to get the concessions that it needs to stay profitable. There are way too many people around the country or the world who will work for those concessions. It's just a matter of the cost to relocate. Then there is the affore mentioned quality issues starting to pop up.

I think everybody looks at the front line workers and managers to trim whatever fat they can. My issues are with the upper level managers. How much does a CEO, CFO, CIO or any other type of O really need? Or for that matter a Board of Directors member? These people make MILLIONS upon MILLIONS. They give themselves 50% raises when they ask the work force to take a cut and make concessions. I'm just not seeing that crap. Now granted it's certainly not all of them, but sure seem to hear about enough of them. Guys like Lee Iacocoa who took no salary for a couple years to get a company back on track are the ones that I admire. Even though I understand that he more than made up for it in the long run. He kept people employed and a dying company in business and turned them profitable.

Profit's not a dirty word, these guys set up shop close to the natural resources that this country produces with the deception of putting the american to work, its supply and demand and I think if we get that turned around the big 2 will stay the big 2

backfoot100 wrote: This is one thing that I would have to disagree on from BKH is the paying taxes portion that he stated. I know of a lot of companies that made deals with cities (and I know you all have heard these too) that they would only pay a dollar per year for property taxes or something rediculously low like that just to get the company to put the plant in that city.

Yes Ed, I noted the tax incentives in my second post. However, these incentives are not limited to foreign companies. They are given to American companies as well. For instance, Google was given huge incentives by Michigan to open up a facility there.

The problem is that American manufacturing companies, and American Auto companies in particular have still been unable to find a way to be competitive even with these types of sweetheart deals.

BTW - even if given a deal on property taxes, they must still pay corp income taxes,etc. BKH

eric lavine wrote: Bk, what do you think these companies can do to get back in black? or what can you and me do?   eric

That would make an interesting conversation Eric. Perhaps some day when I get a chance to meet you over beers. For now, I think I'll respectfully abstain. My opinion, would be just that, an opinion. No doubt someone else will have an opinion just the opposite. Inevitably we end up in arguments that can't be resolved anyway, particularly on a boating site.   For now, let's just say that none of my money is invested in American Automobile companies (Though I do own two American cars) BKH.

Support congressmen that support HR 25 "the Fair tax". This will eliminate all corporate income taxes (as well as personal income taxes). This will make the US a tax haven for all manufacturing, especially auto makers. This will create more jobs that can be filled.
See
fairtax.org

Not to put a damper on this thread, it just is so reminiscent of my early days in the mid 70's when I went to work for GM. In reality, the arguments haven't changed much...however, back then, there were no Japanese plants in the U.S. I remember the signs in the parking lots..."If it's not made in the U.S., park it in Japan". When I hired on, the only vehicle I owned was a Toyota pick up. Anyway, I spent 9 years in the UAW, then quit to sell measuring equipment. I now have a broad view of manufacturing in the U.S., whether it's American companies, Japanese, or European. My point is this: We need manufacturing jobs in the U.S. and I don't care who owns the companies...it benefits us all.

   I think the bottom line is greed.Just my opinion.Everyone wants to make more money.Obviously the auto makers are struggling,but so are alot of others.We overspend tremendously as a country and it's finally biting us in the a$$.Health care is rising,cost of employees is rising,cost of living,big oil is killing us just for the fun of it,etc.....As an example,here in the northeast heating oil has gone from 2.70 a gallon down to 2.05 a gallon because of an overstock.We had such a warm January,no one was sucking up the oil.Now that it's been in the teens for three weeks and people have the heat blasting ,oil is climbing back up quickly.Rather than be thankful they're selling it at all,they're trying to make up for a lackluster January.
    Harley Davidson did it in '03.Let's make a ton of 100th anniversary bikes and command all the money for them.Overproduced & overpriced=surplus inventory.New bike prices plummeted,& the used bike market fell apart. It most likely will not recover.In the northeast,you can now buy a new or used HD for about 4000.00 less than you could 4 years ago.Someone has to feel the rath of those losses.
    I could go on for hours about what the manufacturers have done to the snowmobile market up here,but I won't.Bottom line is greed has killed that industry and with 2-3 lackluster winters as far as snowfall,there will likely be 50%less places in Maine & NH to buy a new sled next year.Sad.
    I don't know anything about the workings of a union,but I hear alot of my friends talking about it and it seems like they have the employer over a barrel.That's great if your in the union,but if it's protecting the guys that aren't pulling their own weight,then they can only blame themselves when the employer reaches the breaking point and has to cut back.The reality is that cutbacks in that environment will not not likely affect the white collar guys.    
    As a new business owner,I'm trying to do my part by going to work everyday,working hard & efficient,trying to do it better than the next guy,and making an honest living without being greedy.I'd be willing to bet that everyone on this site can say the same thing and probably knows alot of people who work just as hard,but as a country in general I'd have to say that's not the case at all.
   We can make all the excuses we want,but at is was said in a previous thread a few months back....we've done it to ourselves.
   Sorry this rant is all over the map and got so long.


     Mike

Mike, makin any money? this is gonna start a whole new topic

eric lavine wrote: Mike, makin any money? this is gonna start a whole new topic

   Nope!
    Actually I can't complain.I have quite a bit of clientel as I've been in the industry for 13 years.I have four jobs in the shop now and I've only been open a week.One of them is a brand new bike(10 miles on it)which I'll be doing about 10k worth of work to,but in the end,I'll be lucky to have made a thousand bucks.Hopefully when the weather up here breaks I'll be able to get rolling right along.
      Tell me again why I'm doing this


     Mike

   Thank you Eric.I've formed my own opinions over the years about work/employees and the bottom line is I didn't feel I was being treated fairly.I had most of the responsibility for day to day stuff,but no control.I worked for him like I was running my own business and the customers would attest to that.
    I worked for him in his small garage at the beginning and for the next five years helped him grow his business and be successful.We moved to a 6000 sq.foot building and over the last three years he hired at least 20 people who came and went because they couldn't make him happy.Only one guy besides myself survived the environment.
    The three weeks prior to Christmas he worked an average of 3 hours a week,while myself and the other guy did the $20k or so worth of work that came in,while he was out living it up with his new lady...Which is o.k.,BUT....He came in the day before Christmas and told us we wouldn't be getting bonuses this year cause we were'nt making him enough money,and "OH by the way,you guys are off next week without pay,we're going to be closed"He then proceeded to tell me he didn't feel like he was getting his moneys worth out of me.I said.......
        "S-E-E     Y-A!"
   Now I have all the responsibility and all of the control,which is fine by me.
   Best part is the other guy doesn't want to be there without me to lean on,so he's looking for another job
    

   Didn't mean to rant on about my personal life,but the talent pool for skilled people is not that deep anymore,and if any of you guys out there have employees that do a good job,compensate them.Too many business owners lose site of the fact that they wouldn't have a business all without good people behind them.Again,sorry for the rant.(and the threadjack)

   Mike

Mike

Where is your shop located? Post a phone number if you would, I'm always looking for parts for the '89 FLH, or is that older than what you work with?

Dave

Mike: Sure wish you were closer. All the Harley dealers I've been to recently are gettin' to big and to worried about selling T's to yuppie guys on their first bike if they even have one at all. Big and fancy: ugh.

BTW: my ride is a '96 Heritage Cla$$ic. Wouldn't sell it for anything. Just rode her yesterday and on an errand today. Man, I love it down here!

john