ZDDP Question

Riley wrote: When I say more modern, I'm comparing an 80's vintage to an antique like the early '60's 170 ci IL six in our Mustang. .

The key point in the importance of the zinc is not the actual age but if the engine has flat tappets or not.

What are the symptoms of a wiped lobe on a cam? The ticking noise in the Mustang since I put the P heads on seems to be getting louder. I've adjusted /checked lifter preload several times. In the back of my mind I question the triple springs Tri State installed and wonder if they could be a cause?

I started using Cenpeco 15w40 in the flat tappet solid lifter hemi since the rebuild, not much forgiveness on a valve train there. Todd W turned me onto this stuff, It's not a off the shelf product but he gets it through a dealer (sort of like amzoil products) and uses it for all his farm equipment. The 15w40 has 1600 ZDDP.   Cenpeco 15w40

I had always used the Vr-1 20w50 in the 81 nautique and to be honest with you I never liked it, It was a little slow to the top of the motor when cold and I never felt the 50 was required so finding the Cenpeco 15w40 with 1600 ZDDP to me is exactly the right combination. It ain't cheap but neither is rebuilding a vintage motor.

Did a little more research.    Achieves 5,000PPM if whole bottle used w/4 .5 qts oil

Lucas TB Zinc Plus

VR1 when wiping the cam Joe?

Do they install some pretty healthy springs down at Tristate?

phatsat67 wrote: VR1 when wiping the cam Joe? Do they install some pretty healthy springs down at Tristate?

Triple springs if I remember correctly. 20 20 hindsight should have checked against my cam card spring specs. I had thought that since I had a broken in cam and ran the VR oil I'd be ok. This will be next summers project. Will do as Joe says with the dial indicator and will go from there.

If it comes to that I certainly will Zach. There must be a F 12 key on the back of the engine somewhere

phatsat67 wrote: See if J-Bear can come up and assist with the internal engine work.

OMG....I will clear the calender!



john

If the cam lobe wore enough to expose the oil passage it could be a large oil leak but that would mean a half inch of lobe was worn away. I have never seen that.
I suspect you have a plugged oil passage or a missing block plug causing pressure loss and cam failure.
Note many core blocks will sit for extended periods before they are put back in service.
If the lifter bores get rust in them they can keep a new lifter from spinning.
This alone has caused many cam failures. 5 minutes with fine Emory cloth can eliminate this.
High pressure valve springs are another common cause.
I know engine builders that will break in a flat tappet high performance cam on light pressure springs and install the stronger springs after break in to avoid failure.
Factory springs only had 75-90 seat pressure. Your triple spring package is way above that.

What you actually have is hydraulic flat tappet cam. If they were solid you would have to adjust them,hydraulic ones self adjust. Keep in mind the manual was written 20+ years ago things have changed and Ford certainly has not kept up with testing obsolete engines.   If you can find a single weight oil that has 1200 ppm of zinc go ahead and use it. Many of us use 20w 50 Valvoline VR 1. I can get it usually under 4.50 a qt. There are many oils you can use, some cost more very few if any are cheaper- check with the manufacturer many of their web sites contain that data

Yep.

Bruce, my opinion and experience is this - no difference in consumption between multi and straight weight. Difference in oil pressure is a different story, but in engines that consume oil I've seen them continue to consume oil of higher multi, or straight weight.

I have had direct experience with a change of brand/type of same weight having an effect on consumption. I have no idea why this is, but have experienced it several times.

The Multi Viscosity oils are thinner when cold. If you have leaks, you will leak more oil.
The leak could be at the valve stem seals. Thinner oil can pass more than thicker oil so this could cause more consumption.
If your Piston Rings are good they won't care what oil you run. Rings in good shape will run fine on 5-20W and not burn any oil.
If you are leaking oil past the valve stem seals, just one drop per revolution can burn a quart of oil in 400 miles. What is that in a boat? I don't know, maybe 8 hours use?
I have run both Chevy and Ford V8's in my Ski boats the last 40 years and never needed to add oil between changes. Originally I ran 30W then switched to 10-30W but for the past 5 or 6 years I've run 15-40W Diesel Engine oil ( Delo, Castrol or Rotella ) to maintain the ZDDP at a reasonable cost.
A good engine will not care what weight oil is in it as long as it has the proper lubricants and is not too thick. 50W is pretty thick oil, I would certainly not go any heavier.

rosconole wrote: another view on ZDDP here with some options... https://www.amsoil.com/newsstand/classic-and-vintage/articles/reduced-zddp-and-wear-protection/

Ross,
Did you read the article?
Regarding tappet and cam wear, I do find this statement interesting:

"Because most V-8 engines of the muscle car era came standard with flat-tappet cams, the problem is especially prevalent to classic-car and hot-rod owners. In these applications, modern oils, such as AMSOIL synthetic motor oils, are capable of providing adequate wear protection after the engine has been broken in. But due to variables like severity of service and level of modification, AMSOIL primarily recommends high-ZDDP oils in these applications"

So, they too recommend ZDDP for our flat tappets!!

To me, it looks more like an ad for Amsoil!! ,

rosconole wrote: Yea just trying to get some more input for something outside of sae 40 W for 454 and changes in specifications . not an easy oil to find like it used to be and pricing all over the place.

Ross,
Are you going by what the manual says? I agree with Gary regarding multi weights:

Gary S wrote: Keep in mind the manual was written 20+ years ago things have changed

Have you considered a multi weight?