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Help! Cooling issue! Novice

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    Posted: May-30-2020 at 10:48am
I purchased this boat just a week ago, and this would have been my second outing on it. It's a 1975 Southwind 20 with a ford 351W PCM. First outing went off without an issue. Last night I put her in, she starts right up. I back away from the ramp to allow others to use it and waited for my friend to park the trailer. I was probably waiting for about 6 or 7 min because there was a line back to the dock. I noticed there there was a slight bit of smoke behind me and looked down at the temp gauge that was between 200 and 240. I panicked and immediately shut the engine off. I popped open the engine cover and noticed that both exhaust hoses were smoking, but very lightly. Wisps, like if a hot engine was burning off a drop of oil that had been dripped on it, It wasn't billowing. I left the top open and jumped on the paddle and headed to shore. I pulled the boat onto the trailer as far as I could by hand. I was scared to, but I started it up to get it on the rest of the way. Started off the first bump of the key. Temp was 180. As I gave it more and more throttle to snug up on the trailer the temp immediately started to drop all the way to 160. I need help. I don't know where to start.

I am ignorant in this area. This is my first inboard. I am mechanically competent but l need some instruction and some wisdom here. So feel free to talk to me like you were explaining this to your kid. Won't bother me a bit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-30-2020 at 10:56am
John,
Have you been running the engine with the boat out of the water and without water connected? The RWP is water lubricated and it doesn't take long for rubber impellers to burn up. Check the impeller condition. Also, since the exhaust hoses got hot, you need to check them internally. When overheated, the inner layer becomes disbonded and folds inward and can cut off the exhaust/water flow.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atomic Dam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-30-2020 at 11:03am
No, I know never to start it out of the water without water hooked up. The only time it was run was while it was in the lake. I am going to go out now and check the impeller and the exhaust hoses. I will get back to you as soon as I dig in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atomic Dam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-30-2020 at 11:48am
Just checked the exhaust hoses. Both were in really good condition. Looked brand new inside. Moving on to the impeller.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-30-2020 at 11:57am
The Jonny Quest "how to avoid overheating" credo is:

1. Change raw water impeller every 2 years
2. Change thermostat every 3-4 years
3. Change temperature sending unit every 4-5 years
4. NEVER run engine without water.
5. Watch temperature gauge regularly while boating
6. Inspect risers and clean-out with each year's winterizing

Hopefully, your engine didn't get too hot for too long. Heat can screw-up a lot of things. Be vigilant and check your oil for signs of water intrusion. If water is getting into the oil, look under the oil fill cap for residue that looks like chocolate milk. Also, check the oil regularly to see if the oil looks "milky" and kinda like chocolate milk. That can be signs of a cracked head or head gasket issues. Both can occur with overheating.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-30-2020 at 12:16pm
Talk about overkill. Thermostats and temp senders go bad very rarely.

Watch the gauge consistently and note when things are abnormal, and you’ll usually catch a cooling issue before it becomes serious. Impeller every 2-3 years or 150 hrs (whichever comes first) would be my recommendation. Only use high quality oem impellers.

Was the engine full of water when you first launched? Or was it dry? If a little throttle brought the temp down then a slight air leak might’ve caused the issue (while idling). Go inspect all hose ends and hose clamps for tightness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atomic Dam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-30-2020 at 1:58pm
Understood. Just picked up impeller to replace. Going to do that now. I was told by the parts guy to check the strainer gasket. Where is that exactly?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atomic Dam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-30-2020 at 2:06pm
Again, forgive my ignorance, I would rather be certain than make mistakes. Is the impeller housed in this pump?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-30-2020 at 2:22pm
John,
Yes, that's the RWP.

Regarding the strainer, you may or may not have up. It's typical location would be between the thru hull water inlet and the trans cooler


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-30-2020 at 2:24pm
As Tim states,
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Only use high quality oem impellers.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atomic Dam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-30-2020 at 2:46pm
Okay, so apparently this is an Escort? 351 pcm. How do I find parts for this? when I went to the local boat shop to get an impeller, they gave me a model specif one for this boat, but it certainly is not the correct impeller. Does anyone know anything about this?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-30-2020 at 2:59pm
John,
There should be a model and manufacturer on the pump. Many times it's stamped into the front flange of the pump where the gasket is.

Chances are good that it's a Sherwood so take a look at their chart.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-30-2020 at 3:04pm
Originally posted by Atomic Dam Atomic Dam wrote:

Okay, so apparently this is an Escort? 351 pcm. How do I find parts for this? when I went to the local boat shop to get an impeller, they gave me a model specif one for this boat, but it certainly is not the correct impeller.

The proper impeller is for the engine and NOT the boat. I think I'd be shopping elsewhere. .

Escort was purchased by PCM about 1977 or 78 so your engine is a Escort and not a PCM. Some parts interchange and others don't.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-30-2020 at 3:50pm
The Sherwood impeller for your pump is most likely a 10615K like what's in the link below.

They used the same impeller and pump in the 302 and 351 Escorts. There's a good chance it's a G-85 Sherwood pump.

If only there was somebody posting in this thread with a 302 Escort who could tell him what he has for a pump and what impeller he uses in his.

The dimensions are in the link and you could compare them to what you have to see if the 10615K will be right.

link

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atomic Dam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-30-2020 at 3:51pm
Its a Jabsco pump Model 17100-0001. Struggling to find anything
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-30-2020 at 3:58pm
Originally posted by Atomic Dam Atomic Dam wrote:

Its a Jabsco pump Model 17100-0001. Struggling to find anything


This is what's listed for your pump

You can compare dimensions and note that the center is splined

I seem to think the body was plastic and lots of them were replaced with Sherwood's as they weren't too durable.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-30-2020 at 4:00pm
John,
Since it's a Jabsco, here's their chart


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atomic Dam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-30-2020 at 5:02pm
I found the part online. There was a cross refrence number to a mercruiser engine model that uses that same impeller. It should be here wednesday. I did look and there is no strainer on this engine. But there are two inline canisters that look to have hoses to other engine components. Most notably the transmission. Does anyone know what those are?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-30-2020 at 5:10pm
Originally posted by Atomic Dam Atomic Dam wrote:

I found the part online. There was a cross refrence number to a mercruiser engine model that uses that same impeller. It should be here wednesday. I did look and there is no strainer on this engine. But there are two inline canisters that look to have hoses to other engine components. Most notably the transmission. Does anyone know what those are?

If there are two "canisters", then one is the trans cooler and the other is probably an oil cooler. I said probably because a oil cooler isn't a common item on these small engines/boats. A picture will confirm.

Where did you come up with the number to cross reference to the merc?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-30-2020 at 5:47pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Talk about overkill. Thermostats and temp senders go bad very rarely.


Yea, Tim, it is a bit of overkill...but I've not had the best luck with thermostats and temp sending units in the PCM / SBF application. On my old boat (1994 SNOB) I went through 3 thermostats and 3 sending units in 12 years -- I even changed the temp gauge, thinking it was wonky. Maybe I'm just snake-bit...but I look at it as relatively cheap insurance. I spend a fair bit of time on Lake Powell, and we stay in some isolated areas, so I'm a little aggressive on certain maintenance items.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atomic Dam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-30-2020 at 8:21pm
Through a thorough cleaning, I actually found a faintly printed part number on the one of the blades of the impeller. I typed that in a general google search and several options presented. Most led nowhere, but two led those same parts being sold on amazon, or ebay. One led to a chart that had all the applications that fit specific part along with the manufacturers individual part numbers. I had to take precise measurements to make sure, but i found it. It seems odd to me that on a forum for correct craft that this hasn't come up more often. From everything i have found, this was a relatively routine placement in early 70's correct crafts. I will post a picture with the "canisters" for the hopefully clarification. Because i can find almost no info on these motors. Set up, specifications, nothin.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-30-2020 at 9:03pm
Originally posted by Atomic Dam Atomic Dam wrote:

Through a thorough cleaning, I actually found a faintly printed part number on the one of the blades of the impeller. I typed that in a general google search and several options presented. Most led nowhere, but two led those same parts being sold on amazon, or ebay. One led to a chart that had all the applications that fit specific part along with the manufacturers individual part numbers. I had to take precise measurements to make sure, but i found it. It seems odd to me that on a forum for correct craft that this hasn't come up more often. From everything i have found, this was a relatively routine placement in early 70's correct crafts. I will post a picture with the "canisters" for the hopefully clarification. Because i can find almost no info on these motors. Set up, specifications, nothin.


The Escort engines weren't very popular at all. They were only around for a few years and there's not much info at all.

it seems odd to me that you didn't post the number on the impeller along with the measurements so there would be more info here on CCF about Escort engines..............for the next guy with the same problem

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atomic Dam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-30-2020 at 9:07pm
Sorry that seemed strange, unintentional. I will do that straight away. Im away from the house, i am replying from my phone. Will post more info when i get to my computer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-30-2020 at 9:09pm
Originally posted by Atomic Dam Atomic Dam wrote:

Sorry that seemed strange, unintentional. I will do that straight away. Im away from the house, i am replying from my phone. Will post more info when i get to my computer.


    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-30-2020 at 9:21pm
John,
Here's a link to the eary PCM 302/351 manual that's in the reference section. It will probably give you most information you need for your engine. Take a look and if you need more, ask and we'll see if we can help.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fanofccfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-01-2020 at 10:21am
It looks like the same pump that was on my commander. Duane in Indy may be of some help here as he machined a new housing from aluminum if i recall correctly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atomic Dam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-01-2020 at 10:49am
Okay, So here is the site that I got the correct Jabsco part number from. It requires precise measurements of the existing impeller to find the part number for your replacement. After getting the part number and doing a search online, I found that this also has a corresponding Mercruiser part number.

https://pdf.directindustry.com/pdf/jabsco/impeller-replacement/14649-391577.html

The Mercruiser cross reference number is MERCRUISER 34765A1 500106 / JABSCO 920-0001

I found one locally for $80, but decided to order them online. It was on amazon for $20. When it comes in, I will confirm that it was indeed the correct part, and update this thread.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atomic Dam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-01-2020 at 10:54am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

John,
Here's a link to the eary PCM 302/351 manual that's in the reference section. It will probably give you most information you need for your engine. Take a look and if you need more, ask and we'll see if we can help.


The boat actually came with this manual. As much as I have looked through it, it doesn't have anything in there about the escort produced 351. I appreciate you sending that over anyway though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-01-2020 at 11:24am
Originally posted by Atomic Dam Atomic Dam wrote:

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

John,
It will probably give you most information you need for your engine. Take a look and if you need more, ask and we'll see if we can help.


The boat actually came with this manual. As much as I have looked through it, it doesn't have anything in there about the escort produced 351. I appreciate you sending that over anyway though.


John,
What else are you looking for? The Escort is basically the same as a early PCM 302/351.

Have you opened up the RWP yet to take a look? Maybe I missed it?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atomic Dam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-01-2020 at 11:39am
I looked through it, of course when I looked I was looking for something specific, I will look again, I am now second guessing myself.
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