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Transmission toast?
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Wilhelm Hertzog View Drop Down
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Points: 334 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wilhelm Hertzog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-29-2021 at 5:12pm
I managed to track down a local SKF agent who can supply me with the right sleeve (CR 99193 or its Gold version CR 99833) that will cost me far less than a new coupler, so I'm going to sleeve it and see how it goes.

After more than three months, the rebuild parts I ordered from Basic Power Industries eventually arrived last week. So I got back into the build process this weekend, and only paid a close look at the belleville spring for the first time today after cleaning it up - pictures below. It looks pretty worn to me - specifically there's a very noticeable groove worn into it where it contacts the clutch spring bearing ring . Due for replacement I guess? Or still re-usable?
1982 Ski Nautique PCM351W RR II Velvet Drive 10-17-003 1:1 II PerfectPass Stargazer
Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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I think I'd replace it
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FFImarine View Drop Down
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Replace it. I should have some in stock if you wanna get it from me
You break it I’ll fix it
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Wilhelm Hertzog View Drop Down
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Originally posted by FFImarine FFImarine wrote:

Replace it. I should have some in stock if you wanna get it from me

Thanks a lot Joe, I'll PM/email you.
1982 Ski Nautique PCM351W RR II Velvet Drive 10-17-003 1:1 II PerfectPass Stargazer
Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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Wilhelm Hertzog View Drop Down
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And here is a picture of my input shaft, which also looks like the surface on which the seal runs is not in great shape (apologies about the poor lighting, but this is the best resolution picture of the shaft I could get). Plan is to sleeve this as well. SKF CR 99138 (or 99819 for the Gold version) seems to be the right one.
1982 Ski Nautique PCM351W RR II Velvet Drive 10-17-003 1:1 II PerfectPass Stargazer
Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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Gary S View Drop Down
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I had the same problem years ago on my Mustang. One of those sleeves fixed it right up. Dont remember the size though.
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Wilhelm Hertzog View Drop Down
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Basic Power Industries very helpfully provides the dimensions of the sleeves on their website.
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Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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Wilhelm Hertzog View Drop Down
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Can someone perhaps shed some light for me on the following? This service manual says on page 37 to use twelve reverse clutch pressure plate springs, but this service manual says on page 22 (page 30 of the PDF) to use only eleven. Which service manual is right? If eleven is the right number, why on earth would the pressure plate be machined with twelve spring holes, and not only eleven?

My transmission had twelve springs installed, and the spring kit comes with 12 springs, which suggests twelve is the magic number, but I want to be sure to get it right.
1982 Ski Nautique PCM351W RR II Velvet Drive 10-17-003 1:1 II PerfectPass Stargazer
Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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Transmission coolers should be considered a wear item.  When the tranny needs to be rebuilt, it is time to get a new cooler.  They are not that expensive, yet are pretty critical.  If they start leaking or are clogged up, you likely will not know about it until the newly rebuilt tranny is toasted again.  Then you will wonder why you tried to save a few bucks in that area.  
Just my opinion of course.
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Wilhelm Hertzog View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Grandpa Ripper Grandpa Ripper wrote:

Transmission coolers should be considered a wear item.  When the tranny needs to be rebuilt, it is time to get a new cooler.  They are not that expensive, yet are pretty critical.  If they start leaking or are clogged up, you likely will not know about it until the newly rebuilt tranny is toasted again.  Then you will wonder why you tried to save a few bucks in that area.  
Just my opinion of course.
New cooler is lying on the shelf waiting to be installed. I didn't order new cooler lines though - just flushed the old ones out. My thinking is they're easy enough to replace if they should spring a leak at some point in the future, so until that time, I'll run with the old ones. Things which can cause trouble/leaks and are difficult to replace without pulling the trans (seals, sealing surfaces) I'm not taking chances with.
1982 Ski Nautique PCM351W RR II Velvet Drive 10-17-003 1:1 II PerfectPass Stargazer
Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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Wilhelm Hertzog View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Wilhelm Hertzog Wilhelm Hertzog wrote:

Can someone perhaps shed some light for me on the following? This service manual says on page 37 to use twelve reverse clutch pressure plate springs, but this service manual says on page 22 (page 30 of the PDF) to use only eleven. Which service manual is right? If eleven is the right number, why on earth would the pressure plate be machined with twelve spring holes, and not only eleven?

My transmission had twelve springs installed, and the spring kit comes with 12 springs, which suggests twelve is the magic number, but I want to be sure to get it right.

I still don't have clarity on this. Anyone with some insight here? Ken suggested that the springs have eleven coils, and hence the 11/12 confusion, but that is not the case: there is definitely a conflict between the two service manuals about the number of springs to use.
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Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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8122pbrainard View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Grandpa Ripper Grandpa Ripper wrote:

Transmission coolers should be considered a wear item. 

I've never heard this before. Anyone else?


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KENO View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Wilhelm Hertzog Wilhelm Hertzog wrote:


Originally posted by Wilhelm Hertzog Wilhelm Hertzog wrote:

Can someone perhaps shed some light for me on the following? This service manual says on page 37 to use twelve reverse clutch pressure plate springs, but this service manual says on page 22 (page 30 of the PDF) to use only eleven. Which service manual is right? If eleven is the right number, why on earth would the pressure plate be machined with twelve spring holes, and not only eleven?

My transmission had twelve springs installed, and the spring kit comes with 12 springs, which suggests twelve is the magic number, but I want to be sure to get it right.


I still don't have clarity on this. Anyone with some insight here? Ken suggested that the springs have eleven coils, and hence the 11/12 confusion, but that is not the case: there is definitely a conflict between the two service manuals about the number of springs to use.

Ken deleted that comment about 5 minutes after it was posted,after he looked at a spring and you changed your reference page

12 springs came out, put 12 back in
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Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:


Originally posted by Grandpa Ripper Grandpa Ripper wrote:

Transmission coolers should be considered a wear item. 


I've never heard this before. Anyone else?


Considering that if you buy a new transmission or in many cases with a rebuilt unit also, the warranty is void if you don't replace the cooler, you can call it whatever word you want to use I suppose.
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Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:


Originally posted by Grandpa Ripper Grandpa Ripper wrote:

Transmission coolers should be considered a wear item. 


I've never heard this before. Anyone else?


Considering that if you buy a new transmission or in many cases with a rebuilt unit also, the warranty is void if you don't replace the cooler, you can call it whatever word you want to use I suppose.

Good to know but I don't recall the warranty issue ever coming up before.


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Gary S View Drop Down
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I think it was mentioned on skidims site. Dont know if its their policy or not. Edit- just checked,if you look at the description of a new velvet drive its in there.
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After i rebuilt it, added a remote FL1-A filter, something to consider
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11 reverse springs are used not 12 and your cooler is either good or bad but it doesn’t hurt to replace it during a rebuild along with your damper plate
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Originally posted by FFImarine FFImarine wrote:

11 reverse springs are used not 12 and your cooler is either good or bad but it doesn’t hurt to replace it during a rebuild along with your damper plate

Why did he take 12 out? 
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You are now filtering the transmission fluid?
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Early models had 12 holes newer models have 11 holes not sure of the reason but when I rebuild them they all get 11 springs
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And Wilhelm was comparing an early manual with a newer manual.

There's your difference Wilhelm Wink
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Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

And Wilhelm was comparing an early manual with a newer manual.

There's your difference Wilhelm Wink
glad I could help
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Heh, Ratty rocks, an island of sensibility

Yes, a local hose shop made a third hose for me, set me up with the hose connection to npt fittings to run a remote filter. it goes into the filter hot for best flow,  then to the cooler.
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Wilhelm Hertzog View Drop Down
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Originally posted by FFImarine FFImarine wrote:

Early models had 12 holes newer models have 11 holes not sure of the reason but when I rebuild them they all get 11 springs


Great info, thanks Joe. But now I'll forever be wondering why Borg Warner changed from 12 to 11 springs. And why using 11 springs on an older transmission with 12 spring holes is better than using 12 springs. I never seem to get to the bottom of the rabbit hole with these things!
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Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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Just me, but just cause Joe uses 11 and yours was built with 12...........I 'd probably put in 12 and not worry about it.Wink
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Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Just me, but just cause Joe uses 11 and yours was built with 12...........I 'd probably put in 12 and not worry about it.Wink


Putting 12 in isn’t going to hurt anything so instead of wondering just put 12 in and don’t worry about it
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I'd figure a way to add a 13th one just to mess with the next guy
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Wilhelm Hertzog View Drop Down
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Came across quite a nice disassembly video from Hale Marine here: video.

Question: at around the 7:25 mark, the presenter mentions that the bushings inside the pinion carrier assembly/output shaft hadn't spun. How can one tell if they have spun or not? By confirming that the bushing holes line up with the shaft holes? Or is there something else?
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Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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There is 2 bushings in the planetary and there are holes in the planetary the bushings line up with
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