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Excalibur 330 misfire

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    Posted: August-10-2022 at 11:08pm
Hello, 2004 196 runs great at idle and wot. Around 3k rpms cylinder #4 stops firing. I found this by putting timing light on all the plug wires. All firing good except #4. I have replaced cap rotor and wires. Is it a clogged injector or ecm malfunction? Any info would be great!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-10-2022 at 11:32pm
No check engine light coming on either.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-11-2022 at 8:22am
What about the spark plug? A bad injector would not make the spark go away. I am not familure with the Exc. dizzy?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-11-2022 at 8:32am
Plugs are new, it did the same with old plug as well. Good point I overlooked on the injector. I have done cap and rotor, I too am note familiar on this engine as I’m coming from an 83 2001
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-11-2022 at 7:03pm
If it runs great at WOT, does that mean the cylinder starts firing again sometime above 3000 rpm or it's a great running V7 engine at full throttle?

Has it done this since you got the boat?, it sounds like it's new to you


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-11-2022 at 8:05pm
Yes, comes back in at wot. The boat is new to me
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-12-2022 at 7:13am
My next step will be trying a new coil and ignition module
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-12-2022 at 9:27am
I think I'd be more inclined to look at the rest of the distributor internals for corrosion, rust etc. since the distributors job is to send the spark to individual cylinders and you only seem to have a problem with an individual cylinder.

Not much there besides the shutter wheel and the camshaft position sensor, but worth checking and cleaning the shutter wheel.

I might even try another new cap depending on the quality of the cap you just installed. The Vortec cap is known for misfire issues because of how it's constructed. 

At least you'll have a spare cap if nothing else Wink



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-12-2022 at 9:36am
Will try and clean up the internals today, I’ve had the same outcome with two caps and rotors. All looked clean in there but will not hurt to double check. Thanks for the suggestions!! We’ll get it eventually
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-12-2022 at 9:43am
Little background on the boat. I bought it from a coed summer camp, they purchased new and never took care of it. Just did bare minimum maintenance to keep it running all these years. Hull was badly oxidized and interior absolutely junk. So sad as it’s the 196 limited. I picked it up fairly cheap and got the gel looking almost new. Ran the three year old gas out of it, tuned it up until this point.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-12-2022 at 10:54am
Have you considered changing the bad cylinder plug wire with a known good plug wire?  Maybe swap the #7 and #8 and see if the problem goes with the wire.   Rule out the simple things first.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-12-2022 at 10:56am
Yes I have swapped #2 and #4. Tried different wires and plugs as well. Same symptoms
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-12-2022 at 11:36am
Just cleaned wheel and sensor inside the dizzy..no change
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-12-2022 at 1:40pm
Run the engine in the dark and look for spark in that wire going to ground.  A bad wire will give you a light show in the dark.   Not too many things can cause one wire to lose spark.  Just to rule it out I would compression test that cylinder.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-12-2022 at 1:45pm
I will try that. I have tried two different wires. Compression test resulted in 180 psi across all 8
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-12-2022 at 2:35pm
Dang, no easy answers for this one.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-12-2022 at 2:38pm
Right so frustrating
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-12-2022 at 2:50pm
If it thru a code, that would help a ton as to where to look
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-12-2022 at 5:07pm
Just tried new pick up in dizzy, coil, and ignition module. Stumped at this point
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-13-2022 at 3:02am
OK, this has to be a simple fix if you can just find it.

Shade tree test.  Won't hurt anything but might learn something.

Edit update: Fire order on this engine is:  18436572
When you remove the #4 spark plug is it pristine white like brand new or fouled Wet with Gas?
Black from Carbon build up?   The Plug Gap is properly set?   I worked on a Ford 5.4L Truck engine, the owner had it in a shop 4 times because it kept killing Coils.  These are coil on plug engines.  When I inspected it for the source I found a shop put new plugs in it 2 years prior.   After that it needed 4 new Coils, installed one at a time over the 2 year span?  When I removed the spark plugs I found the #8 Spark plug, near impossible to remove in the Ford Truck, I found the previous shop had dinged the plug gap closed when they installed it.  It is very tight and hard to get in there to work but the shop never went back and checked to see why the engine kept reporting miss fires.  They had installed new spark plugs so they never checked them for a possible source of the problem.  With the plugs replaced the coils worked as intended with no more mis fires.  The Ford Computer kept putting that engine into a Limp mode because of the #8 bad plug but the mis fires reported in multiple cylinders not just #8  I have heard when the plug is at zero gap the plug wire voltage can travel through the block and fire other cylinders out of time.

Remove your 4 and 3 spark plug wires.   Take #3 and route it to #4 spark plug.  Leave #4 spark plug wire off for now.  Start the engine and see if #4 is sparking using the #3 wire for a spark source.  It won't make much if any power but it should have a spark you can see all the time.   If this #3 spark source can't make the #4 spark the problem is #4 is grounding the spark plug or the plug is fowled out and dead for some reason.  No spark is jumping the plug gap so your test light can't see it.   The #3 plug is next in the fire order after #4  so a late spark won't cause any problems but might help test and see if #4 could fire with a good known source.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-13-2022 at 6:32am
Originally posted by MrMcD MrMcD wrote:

OK, this has to be a simple fix if you can just find it.

Shade tree test.  Won't hurt anything but might learn something.

Fire order on this engine is:  13726548



Umm............Somebody needs to tell you that Steve has a Chevy engine
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-13-2022 at 1:47pm
OK, reboot.  Chevy 350 is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2  so do the same thing with 4 and 3 to see if #4 will fire with a known good wire.  The timing will be late so it won't run right but you could see if a known good wire can make the bad cylinder fire, on the Chevy that would be #3.  It will not cause any problems but it might help diagnose.  I will edit the post to correct for a Nautique with a Chevy.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-13-2022 at 3:56pm
Have tried a different wire with the same results. Looking like nothing more I can do, I’ll have to call the dealer unfortunately
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-13-2022 at 5:10pm
Test for fire at the cap on #4.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-13-2022 at 6:29pm
Will do
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-14-2022 at 7:55am
Here's a link to a recent thread.

At least your engine runs Wink

Not knowing what you used for a replacement cap quality wise, maybe it'll make you want to try another new cap


At least you'll have a spare cap if it doesn't make any difference in how it runs.

So when does this thing start firing again as you go up in RPM?

Does it misfire again on the way down passing through 3000 RPM and then clear up again?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-14-2022 at 8:14am
Interesting read. I could try a different cap. Cylinder #4 loses spark around 2300 and comes back in around 3400.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NCH20SKIER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-14-2022 at 10:31am
I am guessing and hoping (for you) it is a bad cap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fl Inboards Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-14-2022 at 2:03pm
Just so you know you cant time these engines traditionally. what is the distributor off set at?
The only way one can set it is with a diacom setup. if memory serves me,  0 off set plus or minus 2* is the setting..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-14-2022 at 2:50pm
Ken the other GM cap issue was only a month ago.   You would think I would remember that solution.   I thought it was interesting that the previous thread on this stated that the owner of that boat had starting installing a new Dist Cap every season to avoid having these failures.   Very bad cap design in my opinion.
Could be a cheap and fast solution for this boat.
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