Forums
NautiqueParts.comNautiqueSkins.com - Correct Craft Upholstery and Part
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Timing not advancing
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Timing not advancing
 Post Reply Post Reply   
Author
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
asuj158 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: April-12-2023
Location: Indianapolis
Status: Offline
Points: 25 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asuj158 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Timing not advancing
    Posted: June-14-2023 at 8:33pm
Hey guys! So got the boat running pretty well thanks to your guy’s help. However I have one last lingering issue: the timing does not advance nearly as much as needed past 3000rpm.

I have timing set to 10 at idle. However when I rev to 3000 or over it only gets to around 20. Rpm maxes out around 3900 and can only get to about 40mph.

Things I have replaced or verified so far:
1. New spark plugs gapped to .035
2. New wires
3. New coil
4. New resistor before coil
5. New cap and rotor
6. New condenser
7. New diaphragm for secondaries
8. Rebuilt front bowl/front part of carb
9. New springs for advanced timing
10. Verified correct spark plug wire order
11. Verified correct 14x16 prop.

Any ideas or things to try or look at?

Thank you for the help!
Back to Top
Jonny Quest View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: August-20-2013
Location: Utah--via Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 2979 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-14-2023 at 10:18pm
For the 1989 Ski Nautique?  SBF 351 Windsor?  Standard rotation, as you have a 14X16 prop and that means 1.23:1 tranny.  Take a few photos of the distributor...particularly of the innards and the mechanical advance mechanism.  We can help you get it sorted out.  Post pics on this thread.

JQ
Current
2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited

Previous
2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow
1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow

Aqua skiing, ergo sum
Back to Top
asuj158 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: April-12-2023
Location: Indianapolis
Status: Offline
Points: 25 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asuj158 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-14-2023 at 10:21pm
Correct 1989 Ski Nautique 2001 Ford 351. I’ll post pics in a bit.
Back to Top
asuj158 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: April-12-2023
Location: Indianapolis
Status: Offline
Points: 25 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asuj158 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-14-2023 at 10:34pm
How the heck do I post pictures on here
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-06-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 11125 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-15-2023 at 7:05am
Originally posted by asuj158 asuj158 wrote:

Hey guys! So got the boat running pretty well thanks to your guy’s help. However I have one last lingering issue: the timing does not advance nearly as much as needed past 3000rpm.


 New springs for advanced timing

Any ideas or things to try or look at?

Thank you for the help!

How about a brand and part number for these new springs that may or may not be the right ones for your application

PS.................. In your last thread you never did answer the question about the 18 volts you were apparently seeing Wink
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-06-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 11125 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-15-2023 at 7:14am
Picture posting these days, use IMGBB, read below, watch the video, 

You can do it with other photo hosting services, but these directions work for IMGBB.

You need to sign up for a free account.

Once you do it, it's really pretty easy,........ a lot easier than the CCF way that doesn't work any more Wink

Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Originally posted by Mpost Mpost wrote:

Originally posted by 75 Tique 75 Tique wrote:

Per Ken's request/suggestion, and per Ken's efforts in finding a relatively easy way to post photos, here is a step by step process.

1.  Have photos you want to post in your phone gallery or on your computer.
2.  Open website imgbb.com
(no need to sign in, sign up, or register unless you want to)
3. click or tap on "select images to upload"
4. Go to your gallery or computer and select photo(s)
(Leave autodelete option on "dont delete")
5. click or tap "Upload"
6.  In the "Embed codes" box, scroll to and select  "BBCode full linked"
7. in the box at the bottom of the page where the photo URL shows up,  tap or click "copy"
8. Open your CCF reply and tap and paste or click and paste.
9. Voila, its there. (Note: it wont show up until you view preview or post it)

I suppose 8 steps sounds like a lot, but its mostly quick easy point and clicks (or taps)  Goes quickly and easily.  Give it a try.


Added this here so it is sticky or pinned Smile

And added this link to the You Tube video that Larry made so there are written instructions and a video showing how to do it.


Written and video instructions all in one spot Wink

Good idea Marty

 
Back to Top
asuj158 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: April-12-2023
Location: Indianapolis
Status: Offline
Points: 25 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asuj158 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-15-2023 at 9:10am
Bought them from nautique parts:
https://nautiqueparts.com/kit-distributor-advance-spring/
Back to Top
asuj158 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: April-12-2023
Location: Indianapolis
Status: Offline
Points: 25 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asuj158 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-15-2023 at 9:16am
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-06-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 11125 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-15-2023 at 3:42pm
The big spring on the bottom in your picture, with the stretched out looking end.....is it tight with tension on it or can it wiggle around with about an 1/8 to 3/16 of an inch of free play?

The slots in the advance limiter control how far the weights can advance as the speed goes up and the weights overcome the spring tension.

On that distributor with the nylon advance limiter, if you have 10 degrees initial, you'll be lucky to get 30 degrees total. (10 initial plus 20 from the weights)

If the combined force of the springs is too heavy, you won't get full advance

Normally the big spring has the free play mentioned above and isn't under any tension at all until up around 3000 rpm, and then as it gets stretched, it slows down the advance. Until then it's just along for the ride and the thin spring is doing all the work..

Here's a picture of a big spring (at the top)with the right amount of free play and also the thin spring with some tension on it at rest.

Just because they came from Nautiqueparts doesn't mean they're right for your distributor.

You wouldn't be the first one to have trouble with those same springs
Back to Top
asuj158 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: April-12-2023
Location: Indianapolis
Status: Offline
Points: 25 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asuj158 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-15-2023 at 3:48pm
Keno thank you for the info. I just said screw it and bought a DUI distributor from discount inboard marine they had in stock for my motor. Hopefully it fixes my issue and the boat runs better
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-06-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 11125 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-15-2023 at 3:50pm
That's the easy way out and it'll fix your advance issues Wink
Back to Top
asuj158 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: April-12-2023
Location: Indianapolis
Status: Offline
Points: 25 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asuj158 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-15-2023 at 4:15pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

That's the easy way out and it'll fix your advance issues Wink


I hope so 😂
Back to Top
asuj158 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: April-12-2023
Location: Indianapolis
Status: Offline
Points: 25 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asuj158 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-21-2023 at 4:29pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

That's the easy way out and it'll fix your advance issues Wink

Keno is there a write up on replacing the original distributor with the DUI on 351 from a 2001? I saw the one going from protec to dui but not one for my vintage of boat.
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-06-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 11125 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-22-2023 at 7:52am
Are you familiar with installing or replacing a distributor and just wondering about the wiring or maybe looking for installation instructions too?
Back to Top
asuj158 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: April-12-2023
Location: Indianapolis
Status: Offline
Points: 25 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asuj158 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-22-2023 at 7:58am
Wondering about the wiring more than anything. Can I reuse the wires that go to the coil? My guess is physical install is almost exactly the same as a normal one.
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-06-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 11125 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-22-2023 at 8:13am
The wiring is easy, but some people like to complicate it. Wink

I'll post a diagram later today that should help, but basically you bypass/eliminate your ballast resistor and run the wire that went to the coil to the power lead on the DUI distributor and the tach connection on the DUI gets hooked to your original gray tach wire in the harness.

One more wire can be added to help give the best starting voltage, that'll be in the diagram
Back to Top
asuj158 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: April-12-2023
Location: Indianapolis
Status: Offline
Points: 25 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asuj158 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-22-2023 at 11:11am
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

The wiring is easy, but some people like to complicate it. Wink

I'll post a diagram later today that should help, but basically you bypass/eliminate your ballast resistor and run the wire that went to the coil to the power lead on the DUI distributor and the tach connection on the DUI gets hooked to your original gray tach wire in the harness.

One more wire can be added to help give the best starting voltage, that'll be in the diagram


That would be awesome!
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-06-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 11125 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-22-2023 at 2:36pm
Here's a hand drawn diagram

The Red wire into the ballast resistor is from the key switch. it starts as a purple wire at the key switch but at a crimp for multiple connections in the harness it turns into a Red wire

The purple from the ballast resistor was the feed to your old coil and you can use that to feed the positive terminal on the DUI distributor.

The jumper on the ballast resistor takes the resistor out of the circuit so that full voltage is getting to the DUI coil.

The other jumper from the resistor to the "I" terminal on the starter solenoid/relay gives max voltage to the coil when the starter is running and after the engine is running and the key is in Run, the alternator will be supplying about 13.5 to 14 volts. This jumper would be optional but easy to do

You can rearrange the wiring by removing the ballast resistor completely and hooking the associated wires (the Red, Purple and the optional bypass) together for a "cleaner" look

There are other ways using relays etc to supply the power to the coil, but this works well.
Back to Top
asuj158 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: April-12-2023
Location: Indianapolis
Status: Offline
Points: 25 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asuj158 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-22-2023 at 2:56pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:


Here's a hand drawn diagram

The Red wire into the ballast resistor is from the key switch. it starts as a purple wire at the key switch but at a crimp for multiple connections in the harness it turns into a Red wire

The purple from the ballast resistor was the feed to your old coil and you can use that to feed the positive terminal on the DUI distributor.

The jumper on the ballast resistor takes the resistor out of the circuit so that full voltage is getting to the DUI coil.

The other jumper from the resistor to the "I" terminal on the starter solenoid/relay gives max voltage to the coil when the starter is running and after the engine is running and the key is in Run, the alternator will be supplying about 13.5 to 14 volts. This jumper would be optional but easy to do

You can rearrange the wiring by removing the ballast resistor completely and hooking the associated wires (the Red, Purple and the optional bypass) together for a "cleaner" look

There are other ways using relays etc to supply the power to the coil, but this works well.



This is awesome! Thank you so much for the help! I’ll get it installed this weekend and send an update.
Back to Top
TRBenj View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: June-29-2005
Location: NWCT
Status: Offline
Points: 21186 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-22-2023 at 3:28pm
The diagram is fine but overkill, even.

No need for the jumper on the resistor, just put the 2 wires on the same post. I skip the other jumper going to the i terminal on the solenoid also.

The 2 wires the DUI needs are attached to the coil (gray = tach and purple = ign, the latter connects to the dui “batt” terminal). Female spade terminals work for the dui connections if you didn’t buy the special HEI clips.

The bigger issue will be spark plug wires- the HEI has male terminals so your old wires won’t swap. I don’t like any of the off-the-shelf wire options I’ve tried, I prefer the universal wire kits and make the lengths match what I need. Taylor spiro pro is my preference.

Best performance will be achieved if you open up your plug gaps to .055”.
Back to Top
asuj158 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: April-12-2023
Location: Indianapolis
Status: Offline
Points: 25 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asuj158 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-22-2023 at 4:07pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

The diagram is fine but overkill, even.

No need for the jumper on the resistor, just put the 2 wires on the same post. I skip the other jumper going to the i terminal on the solenoid also.

The 2 wires the DUI needs are attached to the coil (gray = tach and purple = ign, the latter connects to the dui “batt” terminal). Female spade terminals work for the dui connections if you didn’t buy the special HEI clips.

The bigger issue will be spark plug wires- the HEI has male terminals so your old wires won’t swap. I don’t like any of the off-the-shelf wire options I’ve tried, I prefer the universal wire kits and make the lengths match what I need. Taylor spiro pro is my preference.

Best performance will be achieved if you open up your plug gaps to .055”.


I appreciate the info. I bought a set of wires with the DUI from Skidim. Hopefully they work
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-06-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 11125 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-22-2023 at 4:27pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:


No need for the jumper on the resistor, just put the 2 wires on the same post. I skip the other jumper going to the i terminal on the solenoid also.


The really "clean" way that might boggle somebody's mind if they're not familiar with how the solenoid/relay is built is to ditch the resistor completely and hook the Red wire and the Purple wire together at the "I" terminal.

It accomplishes both bypasses with no extra wires and you get rid of the resistor too. Wink
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-06-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 11125 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-23-2023 at 3:19pm
Andrew

Here's the simple clean and easy drawing of what's mentioned in my previous post.
Back to Top
asuj158 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: April-12-2023
Location: Indianapolis
Status: Offline
Points: 25 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asuj158 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-24-2023 at 4:21pm
Well… got the dui installed and seems like the same issue. 40mph and 3900 rpm. Any ideas?
Back to Top
asuj158 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: April-12-2023
Location: Indianapolis
Status: Offline
Points: 25 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asuj158 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-24-2023 at 4:25pm
If the secondaries weren’t doing their job would that cause the loss in rpm?
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-06-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 11125 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-24-2023 at 6:36pm
You'll lose some RPM's and speed.

Here's a link to an old thread


It gives an easy way to check that they're opening if you're all by yourself and in that case their was a 300 RPM and 3 MPH loss.

Somebody else might get different results, but on a 351 with secondaries that don't work, you'll lose some power

And just to be sure you know.............they'll never open if you rev the engine in neutral, you have to be cruisin' on the water with load on the engine for the secondaries to operate

Usually somewhere in the 3500 ish RPM range they start opening and like in the link they don't open all the way on a stock or mildly modified 351
Back to Top
asuj158 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: April-12-2023
Location: Indianapolis
Status: Offline
Points: 25 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asuj158 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-26-2023 at 11:57am
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:



You'll lose some RPM's and speed.

Here's a link to an old thread



It gives an easy way to check that they're opening if you're all by yourself and in that case their was a 300 RPM and 3 MPH loss.

Somebody else might get different results, but on a 351 with secondaries that don't work, you'll lose some power

And just to be sure you know.............they'll never open if you rev the engine in neutral, you have to be cruisin' on the water with load on the engine for the secondaries to operate

Usually somewhere in the 3500 ish RPM range they start opening and like in the link they don't open all the way on a stock or mildly modified 351




Would this affect the timing?
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-06-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 11125 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-26-2023 at 12:41pm
Not with your new distributor. 

DUI advertises 24 degrees of advance at 3000 RPM on top of the initial, but different people get different results

It should be installed at around 10 to 12 ish degrees advance at idle and with the rest of the advance fully in at 3000 rpm, you'll have full advance of say 30 to 34 degrees by 3000 RPM

So full advance would be in before the point that the secondaries should be opening.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

About CCF

Since 2003, CorrectCraftFan.com has been the foremost Correct Craft reference site, and simply provides the best used Correct Craft buying and selling experience anywhere.

Donate

This site is not affiliated with Correct Craft, Inc. Funding for the site comes from members like you. Click on the link below to make a donation.

Partners

Contact

Keith@CorrectCraftFan.com
Alison@CorrectCraftFan.com
www.CorrectCraftFan.com
Copyright 2024 | Bagley Productions, LLC