ProTec Ignition Swap |
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KENO ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11212 |
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Umm, Roscoe, maybe you need to clean your glasses or go brush up on your math skills or something.
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rosconole ![]() Gold Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May-10-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 763 |
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40 degrees of timing ??? are you trying to sell an engine as well?? A GT 40 perhaps .
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1989 ski nautique ,1991 barefoot nautique, 1993 Mustang Cobra 1998 5.0 Magazine shootout invitee
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KENO ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11212 |
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I'd check the total advance at about 3500 RPM before doing anything, so you know what you have.
DUI likes to say that there's 24 degrees of advance at 3000 RPM the way it's shipped to you. Add that 24 to 10 degrees of initial and you get 34. It seems like numerous people around here get anywhere from 20 to 24 degrees added to their initial when they check, with a lot in the 22ish area. 34 plus or minus 2 would be a good total number to have depending on what octane gas you're using. So setting it for whatever initial gives 34 total would be a good start. You might be there now or have to advance it a little 600 ish RPM in gear sounds good for idle RPM Not knowing what connections you want to cover in black goop, I guess I don't really see the need I'd wait till the carburetor comes back before doing the timing and idle adjustments unless you just want to practice doing it
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1993R ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: July-27-2005 Location: Hawthorne, FL. Status: Offline Points: 52 |
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Update
Sorry for the long delay My boat is up and running strong and starts like it’s brand new again I did some extra work to get there I did replace the starter solenoid and both push button fuses I rewired everything in 10 ga including the tack wire and the power wire to the HEI Removed all non essential wires from harnes Refinished the old protect mount in black crinkle finish and loomed all the wires Install looks clean and factory Boat fired right up Only two questions 1) the electrical connections had a black silicon applied at factory to help water proof Anybody know if it’s a specific brand and type. I would like to reapply . 2) The timing is currently set at 10 BTC and 800 rpm. I want to adjust it . From what I’m reading it should be 12 BTC at 600 rpm at idle correct ? I plan on retiming the boat but will be sending the carb out for a complete refresh and want everything to be spot on Thanks |
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KENO ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11212 |
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1993R ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: July-27-2005 Location: Hawthorne, FL. Status: Offline Points: 52 |
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Keno
I will be jumping in it tonight
Got tied up at work but have next 5 days off You may have solved it via the tach wire I don’t have it going directly to the HEI Will route it properly and hopefully she fires up It’s been pretty hot in FL so early morning late nights are only times to work on stuff and feel comfortable Would like to get back to skiing again Will keep you posted Thanks |
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KENO ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11212 |
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You got this thing making noises like a running engine yet?
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rosconole ![]() Gold Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May-10-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 763 |
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Just hold the wires together put your foot in a bucket of water and crank it. Let me know if you feel anything.
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1989 ski nautique ,1991 barefoot nautique, 1993 Mustang Cobra 1998 5.0 Magazine shootout invitee
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KENO ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11212 |
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Where are you checking power to the distributor? At the (+) terminal on the cap
Is the tach terminal hooked to the boat's gray tach wire? Nothing else hooked to the tach terminal Silly question, but is the 3 wire plug from the distributor plugged into the cap firmly? All 4 connections on the ignition module under the cap connected?
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1993R ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: July-27-2005 Location: Hawthorne, FL. Status: Offline Points: 52 |
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I just did this conversion on my 92 ski
Same boat as JPAss Everything installed easy and my distributor is positioned just like the photos TDC has been checked twice. Wires installed properly. Only issue is motor and starter are turning but no fire to plug wires Checked power to the HEI and it’s moves between 11 and 12 volts when cranking Checked my grounds seem okay Haven’t run new the power and ground wires to dash yet DEI said it sounded like the unit needed to be grounded and offered a suggestion on how to test it It didn’t change anything Any suggestions ? |
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KENO ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11212 |
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Since this is your first post, nobody knows whether your engine has the standard heads or gt40 heads. So..........the bestest, most correctest answer is to use the same plugs that are in it now because there were different plugs depending on the heads used
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Jonny Quest ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: August-20-2013 Location: Utah--via Texas Status: Offline Points: 3019 |
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Autolite 764 or 104 plugs. 0.055 gap with the DUI.
JQ
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Current
2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
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malcolm2 ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: June-13-2010 Location: Nashville Status: Offline Points: 239 |
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I will have to check. I don't remember off-hand. I will get back here and reply with that. It has been quite a while, and I will say that this change was fan-dam-tastic. No more hiccups, super quick starts. ZERO ISSUES.
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wkebrdr ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: April-08-2024 Location: 64078 Status: Offline Points: 1 |
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I searched around, but what spark plugs are you using since going to the DUI?
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Bill
92 Ski |
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KENO ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11212 |
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Good to know you gave it some thought ![]() I've seen the switch listed in PCM literature as both 210 degrees and 200 degrees depending on where you look. It's the same part number for a ProTec engine and a GT40 engine. If I wanted some kind of protection/warning from the oil pressure and/or water temperature switches, I'd probably wire both to relays that fed a loud, obnoxious horn to let the driver know there's a problem and he/she could turn the engine off or keep running it depending on the situation. That way O-76 or whoever's driving wouldn't have to find the right relay and yank it and Pete wouldn't have to pull out his wire cutters and snip the right wire in the middle of a "not so good" situation. I suppose in the end, it's whatever you're comfortable with |
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desertskier ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December-19-2006 Location: Az Status: Offline Points: 1118 |
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Installing just the first relay would be really easy since you have already done everything else. Just connect 87 to the dizzy without the second relay. I know how much you like projects! But if you want to protect that new roller motor I would install #2 also. |
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desertskier ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December-19-2006 Location: Az Status: Offline Points: 1118 |
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I did give that some thought. What I considered is that during 1600 hours of operation my boat has never overheated or gone into limp mode (except when the old wiring had too much IR drop - long time ago). Although the scenarios you mention and others are possible I believe the risk is extremely low. It would be nice to have the limp mode feature still but without it I would rather save the motor.
My boat doesn't have the dash alarm/lights but for those that do it would be easy to replace relay #2 with a timer relay. You could set it to a few minutes so your alarm went off before it killed the engine. I was also curious what the DUI does when the input voltage drops but I didn't experiment with that yet. It may start running crappy at some point which would give the driver a heads up. So all you would need is a voltage divider on the output of relay #2 that connects to the DUI wire. According to skidim the switch closes at 210. For some reason I thought I had read somewhere it was higher than that. If it turns out to be a problem it's easy to disconnect unless of course I had a heart attack and crashed then it would be harder. |
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8122pbrainard ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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or cut ether wires at terminal 86. At what temperature does the temp switch close? 200? |
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Orlando76 ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: May-21-2013 Location: Mount Dora, FL Status: Offline Points: 3108 |
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Well Ken, while you’re clutching your chest dying just pop open the dog box and jump the relay! Did I miss where it shuts off at 200? That’s a lil low, I’d step it up to at least 230.
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1976 Ski Nautique 351 Escort 1993 Ski Nautique purple and black 351 HO PCM |
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KENO ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11212 |
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This may seem rather silly of me, but why would you want to automatically turn off the engine at 200 degrees? It sounds like a good idea to protect the engine, but I'd say it's a "not so good idea" for the safety of you and anybody else in your boat. It takes away the ability of the driver to survey the situation and decide whether to keep running the engine till it self destructs if necessary. Take a situation where you're in the boat with serious medical issues like a heart attack for example. The driver is headed for the dock/launch ramp where medical assistance is waiting but your engine temp hits 200 degrees and it shuts down about 1/4 mile from life saving help. I guess you could say, "well I'm gonna die out here but don't worry, we saved the engine" or on the other hand " we cooked the engine but at least I'm still alive" ![]() It was built with the limp feature instead of automatically turning off the engine on low oil pressure or high water temp for a reason. |
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Jonny Quest ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: August-20-2013 Location: Utah--via Texas Status: Offline Points: 3019 |
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Nice, clean installation. I like the dedicated relay for the DUI dizzy.
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Current
2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
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desertskier ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December-19-2006 Location: Az Status: Offline Points: 1118 |
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I recently replaced my Protec with a DUI. I used the same parts and did the installation basically the same as JPASS but decided to install a couple of relays as well. Here is the schematic and a link to the relays that I used
![]() Link to Summit Racing Relays P/N 5593PT The relays connect battery voltage directly from the 50amp breaker to the DUI rather than the existing method of routing the voltage through the dash and key switch. Relay #1 is normally open and will close when the key is turned to the on or start position applying voltage to the DUI. Relay #2 is normally closed and will open when the existing protec water temp switch detects an over temp condition. This will kill the engine if it starts to overheat. I was originally going to use the oil pressure switch as well but when starting the engine it takes a few cranks to get enough pressure to open the switch so the engine didn't start right away. I just disconnected the wire at the oil pressure switch and capped it off. I mounted a third relay as a spare. It's not connected to anything. |
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Dreaming ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May-21-2010 Location: Tacoma, WA Status: Offline Points: 1870 |
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Thank you JPASS - My DUI is installed and the boat runs! I have a 94 that came with the Protec Injection as well, This set of installation instructions works for TBI boats as well, as long as you are replacing the TBI with a carb. The TBI wiring harness is essentially separate with the exception of the interconnected tach wire and one other yellow wire. there are some extra sensors to input to the TBI module that will be abandoned in place. The wiring can all come out though. You will need to remove the 15A circuit breaker on the back of the engine ( leave the 60 and the 12.5) and you can reinstall the 2 remaining breakers on the bracket that the was originally mounted too. the FI module bracket is no longer needed and should be removed for accessibility. While you are working through the wiring harness, the original (Non TBI) wiring harness already includes wiring for the electric choke on the Holley Carb, all you need to do is un-tape the wires from the harness (they're covered up) and plug them in.
Lesson learned: Nicely routed plug wires are great, but err on the side of making the wires too long... they looked fantastic until I timed the engine, and I wound up with a couple of wires that were tight... |
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Dreaming ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May-21-2010 Location: Tacoma, WA Status: Offline Points: 1870 |
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Perfect! Thank you !
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Hollywood ![]() Moderator Group ![]() ![]() Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13522 |
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90s on both ends
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Dreaming ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May-21-2010 Location: Tacoma, WA Status: Offline Points: 1870 |
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JPass - or one of the other guys that has done this swap, I am looking to get my order placed with summit, and would like to know which wire set you ended up with?
the Taylor Spiro pro has lots of choices, so I want to make sure I get the correct item. I have gt-40 heads in my 94 - 90° boots or some other angle? are these correct? Taylor Wires - Summit EDIT: LINK CHANGED TO 90° END KIT FOR FUTURE REFERENCE |
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michiel200 ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: August-17-2009 Location: netherlands Status: Offline Points: 101 |
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Last weekend, I set the timing with a lamp and made a test drive.
The result is amazing. It starts on the button and accelerates better than ever. Especially above 4000 rpm. It feels it gains an extra 40 hp at high rpm. I should have done this much earlier. JP, again many thanks for your instructions. This made the swap real easy. |
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'92 BFN
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michiel200 ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: August-17-2009 Location: netherlands Status: Offline Points: 101 |
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This morning, I put the distributor more 'early' than I did before.
And she started rightaway and ran smooth. For about a minute. The engine choked, obviously because of a lack of fuel. I started investing the fuel filter housing. Because this winter, I renewed the filter. But it didn't came with a new rubber ring. So I went to a local tractor shop, and they had a ring that fitted oke. Now it occurs that the ring was not oke, but too big (it expanded). It caused what we call over here 'false air', the housing was not closed tight so the pump was not able to get fuel into the carb. The engine ran on the fuel that was in the carb when I put the fuel hose straight on the pump, skipping the filter. So this week I get a new ring and have the timing set. And hopefully I can enjoy the new ignition. And a lesson learned not to work on fuel and ignition at the same time. This makes troubleshooting a lot more complex. Many thanks for your suggestions! |
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'92 BFN
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21205 |
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Verify timing order. The rotor rotates counter clockwise.
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malcolm2 ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: June-13-2010 Location: Nashville Status: Offline Points: 239 |
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I did this swap and have a post called "Voltage for my pro-tec swap", search that. Or click on my name and look for my posts to find it..... Unless you have already looked at it. There are a few more details on DUI set up on my post.
I was thinking about the timing light to check that you have juice from the DUI to each plug. If you clamp the inductive connector to the wires 1 at a time and power up the light, then turn the boat key and hold at start while you pull the timing light trigger, the light will flash (if you are getting juice), regardless of what cylinder wire it is on. Just point the timing light to the carpet. A quicker and less-shocking way to check that the DUI is working. You still don't know you get spark, but you eliminate the DUI as the prob. That is how I found out my coil packs were not working. Make sure the DUI cap is on tightly and properly. the hold down hooks are wonky. I can't remember what the DUI has for a rotor, but check inside once more. Careful on unfiltered fuel. Good way to block up your carb. |
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