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reidp
Platinum Member Joined: December-06-2003 Location: Mooresville, NC Status: Offline Points: 1804 |
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Bill,
My 16' Mustang turns the 12x14 5200 and tops out easily at 56 mph. With an increase in HP which I feel is similar to what BC is looking for, +/- 70 HP, I picked up roughly 10 mph top speed which I'm definitely satisfied with, but the biggest difference is in the pull, throttle response and acceleration to top speed. If you could give me a call sometime, I'd like to pick your brain on the nitrous. I've given up on making the old-style Mustang run any faster, as it's a borderline dangerous submarine now, but I'd still like to push an older Nautique closer to the limit. The pre-1970's Nautiques we have, virtually possess no hook in the hull, ride bow high, and thus do run quick with minimal HP, (46-48 with 318/210HP Chry). I'd like to see one of these boats with 400+HP. Please don't tell me to get a race boat. That's too practical. |
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tryan
Senior Member Joined: November-12-2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 345 |
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reid, did the stork bring you a five hundred pound present?
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reidp
Platinum Member Joined: December-06-2003 Location: Mooresville, NC Status: Offline Points: 1804 |
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Nope, not yet, but the 413 Mopar marine is making its way east. I guess you picked up on my 400hp comment.
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SS 201
Senior Member Joined: October-20-2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 232 |
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ReidP, First. Your numbers tell me that you have a 20% hull and prop defeciency. I think we had this discussion, you don't want or a hook ,If anything a little rock, flat is better. You need a 9 or 10 degree strut angle, a prop that is positioned as close to the back of the strut and the blade about 1/4 of a inch from the bottom. A Prop that has at least 9 degrees of rake. The older Michigan actually have a + 2 degrees forceing the nose down. You want to bring the nose up and the transom up but not to far, the water wants to be about a couple of feet from the transom under full power. Nitrous is great however very dangerous, that is you go from ex 9.1 comp to a instant 15,16,17, to 1 in a heartbeat. It' instant power it requires , retard, etc. I would be glad to discuss it however get the boat right first. My boat, I made several changes, however I would not let anyone but myself drive it with the nitrous on.Also take those spray rails off if your going to add all this speed. If you disatified with the bottom, flip it over and use body filler and make it the way you want, that's the way the big boys do it.
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reidp
Platinum Member Joined: December-06-2003 Location: Mooresville, NC Status: Offline Points: 1804 |
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Bill, Thanks.
Couple of questions. When you say "the water wants to be a couple of feet from the transom...", are you referring to the where the spray starts to angle up from the chine where it breaks the water surface under full power? If so, this boat is falling way short of the mark, as it's probably closer to 4-5'. It's got enough of a bow-down attitude that you can't make this boat porpoise at full speed unless you have at least two full size adults in the rear seat. I'll just close the book on this hull and be happy with the decent speed it runs now, except to at least look at the prop positioning relative to the strut and hull bottom, where I know I'm not quite up to the spec's you mentioned in both respects. As for adding speed to the '61-'69 vintage Nautiques, which I think is a more feasible and easier target, is that the wooden spray rail you were referring to removing, (or not replacing)? The Mustangs didn't have them as an add-on fortunately. I've got the orange '67 SN project shown in the diaries with the spray rails currently removed. But it sure can be a wet ride without it at idle speeds. However, if its worth a couple MPH, I can live with a little water in the face, plus replacing them won't be the funnest chore anyway, as opposed to just patching the holes. Also I noticed, and this is totally personal taste, or lack thereof, that this original vintage SN hull doesn't look totally ridiculous or incomplete with the windshield left off, as there's no obvious raised decking screaming "missing winshield". I wouldn't dare consider this on any other CC hulls. (I can already see the raised eyebrows of the purests). I've got the nice two-piece plexiglass windshield with this one, but it was sorta neat taking a few rides without it and having some wind in your face, plus my wife wants to hear nothing of a Jersey Speed Skiff. There was a young man at the FLA reunion a few years back who restored a bright yellow and white SN like this which was rather retro and really sharp. Maybe someone saw it. |
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SS 201
Senior Member Joined: October-20-2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 232 |
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Eactly, the farther the waters breaks from the transom, if you looked at any of my boats you would see. That is the utmost. Usually when a boat porpoises it means the prop pitch is not enough. Think like a portable fan, we need volume but not too much to turn the boat on its chine, with that HP you should be turnig a 15 pitch. The only way to go fast is to turn a lot of pitch a lot of RPM. HOWEVER, YOU SHOULD GET THE PROP POSITIONED RIGHT, CLOSE UP TO STRUT AND CLOSE TO THE BOTTOM AWAY FROM THE RUDDER. The rake of a blade will help to bring up the nose. Think like a Semi Trailer, the further uo the boggy wheels the lighter the nose. Call Eric at Johnson 800-359 9730 get a prop to start with, he will work with you. If you were close I have several.
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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You guys are hard core speed freaks, Which fits right in with me. Tryan I'm a little confused on the flapper's. Currently I have the hinged area of the flapper horizontal, parralel to the deck. Do I need to rotate them or add screws to the inside to keep it closed? (CL of boat)so that it opens to the outside of the haul. I'm assuming the 4160 is a 600cfm carb and my dad say's there is no power valve to jack with. He rebuilt it last season and said read just the idle mixture screws and then get a plug check after running it a 1/2 hour. My dad said not to worry about the carb being 600 verses a 650, I would loose a little power but not enough to worry about.
Oh by the way the long block got delivered yesterday. Thought I was going to be able to uncover the boat and pull the seats and motor box cover and get it ready to take it in to the shop but it snowed again last night after the rain had washed away all the old snow away. Well the dist and new coil won't be in for a couple of weeks anyway. I guest my MSD blaster II coil burns up the ignition module in the dist I'm using so I have to get a mallory promaster series to use. Any one nees a Blaster II coil? |
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tryan
Senior Member Joined: November-12-2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 345 |
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79, congrats on your delivery. damn snow.
the pcm manifolds really just dump the exhaust, so there is no scavenging effect to pull the next pulse, so reversion (water getting sucked back into the motor) is very possible with 110 centers. flappers are just good insurance. lean will make the motor backfire up through the carb, so err on the rich side while you dial it in. i thought 4160 had a power valve on the primary metering plate and the secondary has a fixed plate. i might be confused. take the primary plate off the main housing and check. the reusable blue gakets work well. after you get the mains close, see what level of manifold vac she pulls under load at wot. |
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tryan
Senior Member Joined: November-12-2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 345 |
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79 , are you going to use a stiffer dampner plate? are we having fun yet?
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SS 201
Senior Member Joined: October-20-2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 232 |
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They all have power valves 4160 is up front. unless you plug them, not a good idea if you do it the jets are 8-10 richer. I would run a 6.5 or 8.5 power valve. I happen to run the 4160 for tunning, because it has annular discharges rather than down leg boosters. They accelerate like a 650 and run top side like s 750. Next thing is to find one, they come 600 and 750 CFM. You have no worry with reversion with that cam or maniflolds . Reversion is no mistery and greatly over stated, most people don't know what the hell their talking about anyway.
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SS 201
Senior Member Joined: October-20-2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 232 |
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I am assumeing you are speaking about the flaps on the end of the exhaust when siting in the water. They are to keep the water from backing up the pipes. Some of the older boats used manifolds that were lower than the stringers and would and did siphon up water and put it in the engine.
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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SS 201 you are correct. Do I need to change anything, angle them towards to outside, seal a section to make them hinge differently or just leave them alone?
As far as the carb goes I'll get the numbers off of it and varify everthing. My cousin in-law who is helping me, has a formula to calculate the proper CFM based upon the engine specs i.e cam, compression, displacement and so forth. He also has an extra holley at the shop that may be larger but that was one item we were planning on checking out and sizing correctly. Now if this damn weather would warm up I could get some work done and parts line up. |
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tryan
Senior Member Joined: November-12-2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 345 |
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if your going to slap the holley down on an edlebrock performer 2181 or rpm, you will need the adaptor plate to seal up the bottom of the holley. skidim and the local auto parts will have one.
do you have the carb base with the pvc port? |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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Already have the bases covered on the adapter and yes I do have the base with the PVC port plus a .75-1" spacer plate to raise the crab up further. The pvc and spacer came with the boat when I got it and I swaped out the manifold last year.
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SS 201
Senior Member Joined: October-20-2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 232 |
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Leave them alone.
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tryan
Senior Member Joined: November-12-2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 345 |
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light at the end of the tunnel.
dizzys-r-us an msd 150 bucks for a mallory (check the part # i think its a regular rotation) cheap yh |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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I've all ready ordered the mallory unit. The MSD listed is not marine anyway, it says it is but if it was it would have a 6 on the end and be 5 digits not four. All ready looked into MSD which was my first choice but they only make a chevy and clevland versions unless they have released a 351W in the last two weeks.
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