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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Respirator 101
    Posted: February-09-2010 at 6:27pm
I have looked all over google and this site to find some answers about which respirator is best to use while grinding away the old glass to bed stringers to the hull. With so many different ratings and styles, brands, and accessories to choose from the bottom line question is difficult to find an answer to. Which filter is best for this application, and how many hours should I expect to get out of them? I already have a half face AO Safety brand respirator that I bought a while back for some drywall work.

My best guess right now is that either an N99 or N100 filter is the way to go.

For anybody wanting to learn more I found wikipediato be the only place with any useful information. The directions in the filter package is very vague about how many hours to expect from the cartridges as the lifetime is affected by the environment you are working in. I will be doing all my grinding work outside. Thanks for the help and happy grinding!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-09-2010 at 7:31pm
Consider this to really supress the dust, don't cut dry... use a cutting wheel on a pnumatic grinder, but zip-tie a water nozzle from your garden hose to the grinder to aim a water stream onto the wheel. You'll quickly get the feel how much water is required.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-09-2010 at 8:17pm
Not exactly the answer I was looking for but that is something to consider if you can accommodate that ie tools, location. I am talking about the inevitable hull grinding with 24 grit flap disks, to get down to the bare mat, dust producing mayhem. Are you saying you do all of that work with water running over the grinder and no PPE?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-09-2010 at 8:37pm
a full face respirator(used for retrieving the dead) I find the best, I let that thing clog until my face turns blue, the more they catch the better they filter, just like a screen door. mine sucks to the face and rarely as in your case the mask constantly falls or your always adjusting it and you still get glass in the eyes. I will wear a long sleeve shirt duct tape the sleeves to my wrists because when grinding it has a tendency to sneak up your sleeves
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-09-2010 at 8:51pm
Thanks Eric that answers one question! Use the filter till it is clogged.
Which rating cartridges do you use?

I would definitely buy a full face if I was not on such a tight budget(have been looking everywhere for the steal of a deal). Going to have to settle for the equipment I already have for now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 82 Nautique 1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-09-2010 at 8:53pm
Guy's Please be advised that many rebuilders are using the electric grinders. I would advise against introduction of water in any way while using electric.

On the other hand if you are using air grinders this method may help keep the dust down, however I could forsee another created mess in cleaning up the slury projected off the disk. Dry cleanup is rather easy with a shop vac, however I found myself having to clean the filter many times as it blinds over quite easily prohibiting air flow and suction.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-09-2010 at 9:02pm
Here is what I use Hobby Air to paint with and plan to get a full face mask when I go to do my stringers. You only get one pair of lungs---
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-09-2010 at 9:57pm
Um yeah that is sweeeeeeeeeeeeet but uhhhhh $462... I could think of some interesting uses for that thing! Hey man like where did my air go man, I'm hungry. Good example for those of you with unlimited resources.

I am just trying to get a consensus for best practices using a standard facemask, be it full or half face. I think most would agree full face is preferable for obvious reasons.

I am looking for a simple answer. What level of filter needs to be used. But the "I wish toys are always cool too"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-10-2010 at 10:52am
Luckily, i do work for Serv-Pro and they donated 2 full face masks to me, there are nice because you can change the glass or plastic when they start to scratch, no problems at all with them
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-10-2010 at 11:06am
Originally posted by Keeganino Keeganino wrote:

Um yeah that is sweeeeeeeeeeeeet but uhhhhh $462... I could think of some interesting uses for that thing! Hey man like where did my air go man, I'm hungry. Good example for those of you with unlimited resources.


You must really have good health insurance.My Parents spent a little more than that when my Mom found out she had pulmonary fibrosis.Lets just say food is the last thing on your mind when you can't even breath, I'm not taking a chance,I've seen what happens. I paint Imron and Centari with hardner and that is what I really bought it for.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-10-2010 at 2:53pm
Not trying to put down your method, and believe me I know all the dangers of working with glass which is why I started this thread. There is nothing funny about dying from cancer, emphysema, or fibrosis. I have witnessed them first hand myself too. I was attempting to make a joke about smoking a certain something through the machine that makes you hungry. If you don't get it you don't get it. You are lucky to already have this machine and will be very safe. If anything I envy you.

Again I can't afford a $462 machine but I can afford the best filters they make for my mask. I am STILL trying to get a consensus on what that is based on their ratings. The key is to get the right PPE for the right job. A spacesuit would work great too but again the price tag makes it unreasonable for MOST of us and Tyvek works real well.

For such a simple question I am a little disappointed at the responses received so far. This does not need to be a 10 page thread. I was looking for a short sweet thread with the answer to a very important question. How to be safe without breaking the bank so others could benefit down the road.

Which filter rating is appropriate for this application?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WakeSlayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-10-2010 at 3:16pm
What you have is way more than adequate. Especially for outside work.

The IL Dept of Health says a dust mask is enough. Lowes sells a fancy dust mask they say is for fiberglass work, rated at N95 NioSH spec.

I am not an OSHA expert, so this is purely opinion.

I have a $30-40 niosh filtered mask that i use for all kinds of stuff. If I cannot smell the dust, it is fine. I used it for painting bilgekote, washing down with acteone, CPESing, as far as boat stuff.
I have used it for indoor paint spraying, also.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-10-2010 at 3:39pm
Thanks Mike.

N95 is adequate, N99 and N100 are above the call of duty. I want to be as careful as I can so I will stick with the face mask and N99 or N100 filters. Other filters may be more appropriate for different applications like painting, gelcoating etc, as the R and P filters are oil resistant and oil proof respectively.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 82 Nautique 1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-10-2010 at 3:54pm
Proper respirator:

Google MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet)for the products you are working with and it will give you all the information you need

Type of respirator
allowed exposure

more information than you can think of.
The think most important is the correct filter to collect the smallest particles you will be creating.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-10-2010 at 4:09pm
oh the years I spent maskless, you know the ones, no seat belts, no air bags, kids in the front seat, spraying hundreds of gallons of Caterpillar white lead base paint, some day i will regret it. I wear that mask religously now
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-10-2010 at 5:23pm
Originally posted by 82 Nautique 1 82 Nautique 1 wrote:

Proper respirator:

Google MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet)for the products you are working with and it will give you all the information you need

Type of respirator
allowed exposure

more information than you can think of.
The think most important is the correct filter to collect the smallest particles you will be creating.


That is good information. Of course knowledge leads to more questions. There are a few different types of polyester resins. What am I dealing with grinding into a 1973 Correct Craft hull? I assume the glass matt and cloth will have their own specs as well.

This information will help set an "acceptable best practice" for myself and the entire Correct Craft rebuilding community.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-10-2010 at 5:51pm
Would using a shop vac hose near the cutting help with the dust?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 82 Nautique 1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-10-2010 at 8:09pm
Yes it is true - "Each product will have it's own MSDS Sheet"

I have sat in many work related classes concerning MSDS, OSHA, and safety. Ultimetly it is upto the person doing the work to first watch out for yourself. Even if you are doing the work for hire or pay and the responsibility is the person in charge above you to make sure you are safe.

I built a small box of plywood and attached my shop vac hose to the box. While cutting or grinding I tried to direct the debris as such into the box. This did seem to help.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WakeSlayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-10-2010 at 8:22pm
My opinion is do it outside, on a windy day, with a mask similar to Keegan's photo.
A shop vac does a little to help but you are moving so much and changing angles, i think it is hardly worth it. If you can do the bulk outside, and just little touch ups inside, that is best. This is why it took me an extra 3 weeks to get started on my boat. Had to wait for tolerable weather outside.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 82 Nautique 1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-10-2010 at 8:35pm
Do it at night so the neighbors wake up in the morning thinking that Mt. St. Hellen's erupted again.

I had to move my cars and trucks out of my drive whenever I went outside to clean out my filters.

By far this was the most undesireable part of my rebuild :)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WakeSlayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-10-2010 at 8:39pm
By far! even digging old foam takes a distant second place to grinding.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-10-2010 at 9:03pm
It was perfect grinding weather here today. Very windy and tolerable enough that all I needed was some old sweats under the tyvek to keep me warm. I would shop vac up the pile every few minutes to keep that from blowing all over the place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-10-2010 at 10:52pm
Keegan, I understand where your coming from. I bought it for the Imron and now use it for alot of things.There isn't a filter made that will protect you from isocyanates other wise I'd have bought one. Like Eric, when I was younger,I didnt think about it.But as you get older your perspective changes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-10-2010 at 11:02pm
It is always good to know the "good, better, and best" options. I would say you have the best. At least I am able to do the work in an extremely well ventilated area- outside!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-11-2010 at 1:56am
Your better off outside anyway,you'd be finding glass dust 20 years down the road if you were inside,you know Murphy's law   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-11-2010 at 11:48am
You guys can't read for sh|t, I never said no ppe and clearly said pnuematic grinder.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 82 Nautique 1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-11-2010 at 12:09pm
GottaSki;

How was the clean up using your method. Does it sling a slurry.

Yes you did say pnuematic. However many of the guys currently rebuilding are using electric. I was just trying to help those rebuilders.


Sorry !!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-11-2010 at 12:26pm
nobiggee!
I found it the way to go.. yes, there is some sling of course, but one quickly learns how to aim the tool to direct it smartly, its all caught by the hull, and the water supressed not only the airborn, but most the debris, it all rinsed out the bilge into a bucket for more careful disposal later.
So much less rouge splinters around for the kid's or dog's feet to find forever.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-11-2010 at 1:10pm
Originally posted by GottaSki GottaSki wrote:

You guys can't read for sh|t, I never said no ppe and clearly said pnuematic grinder.


If you had read the opening this thread is ABOUT PPE So maybe you outta get YOUR glasses checked buddy. Not all areas of the hull drain to the bilge, so you are just going to fill all those areas with water? Sounds like a lot more trouble than its worth to me. Plus its freezing cold out there. Maybe you live somewhere warm with your head too far up your ass to read. Good for you.

If you would like to contribute in a constructive manner to a thread I started about respirators then come on back. If you want to talk about grinding techniques START YOUR OWN THREAD!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-11-2010 at 1:40pm
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