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Starter gets hung up

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    Posted: July-06-2010 at 1:38pm
Help!!!! Every once in a while my starter gets hung up. The boat starts and the starter is not releasing. I took it to a dealer (its a 1990 SN 196) he replaced the fly wheel & put an upgraded starter & a brand new battery in & problem still exists. Does anyone have any ideas???
Greg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-06-2010 at 1:51pm
CCA of the battery is a little low and the cables are most likely corroided.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tag962 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-06-2010 at 1:58pm
Cables are brand new battery is 500 cranking amps, is that sufficient?
Greg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-06-2010 at 2:14pm
Greg,
500 is on the low side. Is that what the dealer had in stock? Hopefully they were smart enough and didn't put a deep cycle in the boat!! When they put the new cables in, did they go bigger or use the same gauge? Check your voltage at the starter while cranking.


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77 Tique

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tag962 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-06-2010 at 2:29pm
I will try that thank you!!
Greg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-06-2010 at 2:30pm
We used to save the 425's and 500's for the pontoon boats. Your about 200 shy.
and I concur with Pete, no deep cycle.
"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-06-2010 at 4:20pm
what gauge cables did they install 2 gauge, if so have them removed and 0/2 installed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tag962 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-06-2010 at 4:26pm
Im not sure of the gauge but I will check into it. I hate electrical on boats, so difficult!!
Greg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-06-2010 at 4:31pm
should be labeled in small print on the side of the cable's insulation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-06-2010 at 4:31pm
Greg,
Chris did a "typo" above. He meant to say the cable should be 2/0 and not 0/2 as typed.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tag962 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-06-2010 at 4:37pm
Ok thanks! I will check into when I get home. I know it is pretty thick stuff but I will see what # is on there. They worked fine all last summer so I would be surprised if that is what the problem is, but I am open to all suggestions!!!
Greg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-06-2010 at 5:44pm
it might be label "OO" too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tag962 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-07-2010 at 4:36pm
Everything looks fine but I believe I have a short. When I turn the key to the on position I am showing a reading of 10 volts. I guess I have a draw somewhere so that is taking away from the cranking power. Any suggestions on where to start?
Greg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-07-2010 at 4:41pm
yea the battery

it should read over 13 volts at the posts, if not its junk
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-07-2010 at 4:43pm
Originally posted by Tag962 Tag962 wrote:

Help!!!! Every once in a while my starter gets hung up. The boat starts and the starter is not releasing. I took it to a dealer (its a 1990 SN 196) he replaced the fly wheel & put an upgraded starter & a brand new battery in & problem still exists. Does anyone have any ideas???


take it back and tell them to warrenty their work as it's not repaired properly and the idiots used the wrong battery to boot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-07-2010 at 4:52pm
Originally posted by Tag962 Tag962 wrote:

Everything looks fine but I believe I have a short. When I turn the key to the on position I am showing a reading of 10 volts. I guess I have a draw somewhere so that is taking away from the cranking power. Any suggestions on where to start?

First, check your voltage at the battery and not at the gauge. If your battery shows higher then this may be a classic case of voltage drop to the dash. Clean all connections from the engine to and including under the dash. A wiring upgrade to the dash may even be needed.

For a parasitic load, you put the VOM in series between one of the battery cables and the battery terminal. Don't crank the engine. Start with the meter set to 20 (or 10 on some) amps. Check what amps it shows and you may be able to set the meter to the MA scale. It will be more accurate. If there's something drawing power, it will show up on the meter. Pull fuses or turn off breakers one at a time and when the meter goes to zero, that's the circuit that's drawing power.

BTW, with you turning the key to the on position, you are sending power out to the ignition system.

Do you feel somethings draining the battery over time?

You need to answer these questions so we can help:
What about the cable size, the battery size (already known to be too small) and is it a start or deep cycle?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-07-2010 at 5:04pm
Originally posted by Tag962 Tag962 wrote:

Cables are brand new battery is 500 cranking amps, is that sufficient?
NO
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-07-2010 at 5:09pm
I concur,
and the low dash voltage is significant, its load is not trivial, its powering the coil, the alternator, the choke element, blower. 2 volts low turns into three when powering the solenoid. Then add the starter current load on the battery and the dash will drop further, then there is not enough holding power on the contactor, it chatters, arcs and melts closed.
"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tag962 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-07-2010 at 5:53pm
You guys are great, I really appreciate all the ideas. I will check into all of this when I get home. I did check the cable and it is 2 gauge, so I should remove that & use 2/0?
Greg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-07-2010 at 6:12pm
Originally posted by Tag962 Tag962 wrote:

You guys are great, I really appreciate all the ideas. I will check into all of this when I get home. I did check the cable and it is 2 gauge, so I should remove that & use 2/0?

Highly recommended. Then take the 2's back to the dealer. You can then explain to them where they can put them!!

BTW, the 2/0 has about 50% more current carrying capacity over the #2.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tag962 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-09-2010 at 1:47pm
Ok, so I got the 2/0 cable. Call me stupid but like I said before I am not a mechanic by any means. I am going to run it from the battery to the solenoid, then from the solenoid to the starter. Should I also install this stuff for the negative & ground???
Greg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-09-2010 at 2:08pm
yes neg post on battery to ground on block
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-09-2010 at 2:10pm
Originally posted by Tag962 Tag962 wrote:

Should I also install this stuff for the negative & ground???

Yes, the amps go through it too. Did you get premade with lugs/battery terminals?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tag962 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-09-2010 at 2:33pm
I got the lugs but I have to put them on when I cut to length.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-09-2010 at 3:24pm
Originally posted by Tag962 Tag962 wrote:

I got the lugs but I have to put them on when I cut to length.

Are they the fancy screw on or the crimp on? If crimp on, I suggest soldering the lug after the crimping. This will seal up the connection. I don't recommend the cheaper bolt on with the strap battery terminals. I have used them in a pinch but then use plenty of dielectric grease at the connection of the cable to the terminal.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-09-2010 at 5:05pm
Screw on style battery terminal:


Cheap style:


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tag962 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-09-2010 at 5:35pm
I used used solder to connect the lugs to the end of the new wire with heat shrink to color code for the next lucky owner of this boat (jk). I also picked up new connections that slide over the battery posts and then the log slides over a smaller post and is tightened with a wing nut. I will let you know what happens. Thanks for your help, I am praying that this solves it!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-09-2010 at 5:43pm
Greg,
Did you get a new larger CCA battery. Did you ever check to see if the marina put a deep cycle in it? One last thing, I recommend you do put a new starter relay (solenoid) in since the contacts inside are already burnt/welded.

Sounds like you did a pro job on the cables! You could teach the marina something!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tag962 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-09-2010 at 5:56pm
I did buy a new solenoid so I guess I did something right. I put my 850 cranking amp battery back in & it is not a deep cycle. I put a load on it & it hangs right at 12. Volt meter on dash still says just under 10....Could the meter be broken, or do I have a short?
Greg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-09-2010 at 6:07pm
it should measure over 13v at the battery
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