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Is this antifreeze ok?? |
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bdillard 
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Joined: April-12-2016 Location: Mooresville NC Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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 Topic: Is this antifreeze ok??Posted: December-19-2020 at 6:47pm |
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Going to take a stab at doing my own winterizing following the methods I’ve read on the forum. Went to my local advance auto and the only rv / marine antifreeze they had was “Camco Arctic Ban RV/Marine”. First glance it seemed fine as it says it’s for use with fresh water systems but then if you read the billets more it says not for winterizing boat engines. So I’m thoroughly confused! Thoughts on if it’s ok? Some reviews said they use it for their boats. Don’t want to mess this up on my first attempt by using the wrong antifreeze!
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/camco-arctic-ban-50-degree-rv-marine-antifreeze-1-gallon-30803/7020031-P |
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MechGaT
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Joined: March-09-2015 Location: Chattanooga Status: Offline Points: 271 |
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Posted: December-19-2020 at 10:46pm |
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My vote: looks like the stuff I use. I think they mean not for use in a closed loop boat system. For winterizing this is what you want.
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'92 Sport Nautique
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8122pbrainard
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Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Posted: December-20-2020 at 5:43am |
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Brad,
I agree with Brent. Same RV stuff used by many of us.
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KENO
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Posted: December-20-2020 at 8:46am |
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Camco can confuse you to death with their different anti freezes They have Freeze Ban minus 50 Arctic Ban minus 50 Winter Ban minus 100 and a few others too Their brochure in the link says that the Freeze Ban minus 50 has been used for more than 50 years for winterizing boats (last question in the FAQ's on page 6) The Freeze Ban minus 50 is propylene glycol based and the Arctic Ban minus 50 that you're looking at is ethyl alcohol based stuff. You can find all kinds of discussion about the 2 different kinds but in the end, if you drain the engine first, whatever minus 50 RV antifreeze you use will work for you. Now being kinda cheap, I'd say why not head for Wal Mart and spend less than 3 bucks a gallon on their SuperTech Marine and RV Antifreeze in the link below?  Lots of RV/Marine Antifreeze doesn't have specific words saying to use in your engine for winterizing, just words like "for use in boats" but it's been used by lots of people for lots of years in their engines Since you're in North Carolina, it seems many people down there don't drain first and just suck in 5 gallons of RV stuff It might work for them, but if you drain first, then do whatever method you decided on, it's really pretty hard to screw up when those record cold temps decide to make a visit. |
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bdillard
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Posted: December-20-2020 at 9:46am |
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Thanks all! Had me worried when I saw that it said for boats but then said not for boat engines LOL.
Plan I was going to follow was to get her up to temp, drain the block, suck in the antifreeze, and then fog the carb on the last gallon. I’ve seen heated debates on here but it seemed to be the most recommended method. |
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bdillard
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Posted: December-20-2020 at 9:29pm |
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Welp...had everything lined up to winterize today and...no start on the engine :(.
The engine would turn over, but would not fire. Carb was rebuilt last season, new spark plugs, new ignition coil, and ran good last season and this season. Hadn't been able to run the boat since August (sadly) so it sat for a few months. Had the battery on my trickle charger so it should have been charged up. Also, and what I feel like is the best info I can go off, is that there was no spark from the ignition coil wire. I'd read a few topics on how to test the coil for a spark and I tried using the wire from the ignition held near bare metal and there was no arcing. If you can't tell from this post, or any others of mine that you may have seen, I'm certainly no mechanic. Bought the Nautique to try to learn and understand some basics, but anything to advanced I use a mechanic. His shop is shut down until after new years though. If I can't get the boat to start, is there any value to just pouring some of the antifreeze into the water hose, thermostat hose, etc? Or nah? |
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SNobsessed
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Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Posted: December-20-2020 at 10:02pm |
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You should look at the engine manual found in the reference section. It has a winterizing procedure, short version is you pour the AF into the hose going from RWP to thermostat hsg.
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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8122pbrainard
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Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Posted: December-21-2020 at 6:27am |
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Brad,
If you can't get the engine running and still need to winterize, it can be done. Just as Chris mentioned, your engine can be winterized using the engine manual method. The engine is drained and then the AF is poured in via one of the hoses running to the T stat housing. Fogging is done by spraying into each cylinder via the removed spark plug and then cranked over a few times to spread the fogging oil in the cylinders. I always pour and when I don't want to run the engine I do spray fog via the plug holes.
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bdillard
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Posted: December-21-2020 at 7:49am |
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Thanks!
When it comes to removing the spark plugs, you just unscrew, spray in the hole, and screw back in? Nothing to worry about as far as the gap or anything right? |
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bdillard
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Posted: December-21-2020 at 7:50am |
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Do you guys have a suggested ignition coil if I were to replace mine as a possible fix for the no spark issue?
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Riley
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Posted: December-21-2020 at 8:03am |
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You just remove the spark plugs and spray the oil in, but it's not the end of the world if you don't spray oil in the cylinders. What's your layup going to be, 10 weeks? Plenty of cars sit round without being started for that length of time.
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8122pbrainard
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Posted: December-21-2020 at 8:29am |
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Plus 1. Brad, if you are worried about the temp dropping, then the freeze protection is key. Also, keep in mind a drain only without AF is an option as well. Done for many years and still some use the option. I didn't add AF until maybe 25 years ago. BTW, I also use only a gal. of AF in each engine just to get any low spots.
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bdillard
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Posted: December-21-2020 at 9:57am |
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I went ahead and drained the block as best I could. Didn’t have the right tools to get the plugs out of the exhaust manifolds. Those bad boys are in there good too...maybe too good haha. I pulled the plug that’s on the starboard front and then on the port rear there was another plug that had a petcock that i loosened and drained. It’s not perfect but it’s not FULL of water.
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8122pbrainard
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Posted: December-21-2020 at 10:08am |
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Brad,
The exhaust manifolds are typically the first to freeze up. They need to be drained. Do the plugs have a square recess in them? If so, then the typical tool to use is a 1/2" drive ratchet. How cold are you expecting the temp to drop in the next several days? It does take a few days of below freeezing to get to the engine. A drop light with a 60 watt incandescent bulb in the dog house will keep things warm.
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8122pbrainard
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Posted: December-21-2020 at 10:10am |
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BTW, when you remove a drain plug, don't forget to probe the hole with a piece of wire to remove any sediment that may be blocking the hole.
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bdillard
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Posted: December-21-2020 at 5:31pm |
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Good stuff - I'll see if I have a ratchet that would fit. It is a recessed square, as mentioned that it might be.
The drama continues though...I got wondering if the points might have corroded a bit, so I cleaned them up some and replaced the disty cap and tried turning the engine over and it cranked, still no fire...BUT...then it continued to crank even after I'd moved the key back to the run position. it kept cranking...and cranking...on its own. I removed the key...still cranked. I turned off the ignition switch on the dash...still cranked. It cranked for maybe 2 min until it slowed and finally stopped. I should say it was a pretty slow crank. Not sure if that maybe helps with what might be startup issue, but figured I'd put it out there. As far as the weather...I'm around Lake Norman (Mooresville NC). It won't get terribly cold over the winter but we will have a week or two where we'll have night time temps in the 20s and daytime wont barely get above 32. But it's pretty short lived. Wondering if it'd just be best at this point to drain it as best I can of all water (including exhaust manifolds) and then just pour in some AF in through the thermostat hose and raw water hose. Will probably have to get my mechanic involved. I feel I'm getting over my head at this point on the startup issues.
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SNobsessed
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Posted: December-21-2020 at 6:00pm |
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The extra cranking was caused by bad solenoid. They are cheap. You can check coil with ohmmeter. Not sure of exact ohms but you can look that up on the 'net.
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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DVskier
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Posted: December-21-2020 at 6:18pm |
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I’m about 2 hours southwest of you and I just drain the engine, manifolds, trans cooler, j tube, water filter. That’s it, antifreeze is unnecessary in the South. Also Damp Rid is great for keeping your upholstery from getting mildewed. Sta Bil is your friend.
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bdillard
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Posted: December-21-2020 at 7:46pm |
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Could that be the issue with it not starting? |
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bdillard
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Posted: December-21-2020 at 7:49pm |
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Are you out near the lake lure area by chance? Have a buddy that has a family home on lure. I already added some sta bil to the tank when I topped it off so I’ve got that in there! Maybe if all else fails I’ll go the route you suggested. Something about the reassurance of having AF in there helps me sleep at night for the $30 it cost haha. |
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DVskier
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Posted: December-21-2020 at 8:54pm |
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Lake Keowee, 45 minutes south of Greenville. Lake Lure is really nice but overcrowded. My ski coach has a private lake behind Ingles in Lake Lure so I’m up there 2-3 times a week from April-October. My boat stays on a lift all year.
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bdillard
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Posted: December-21-2020 at 9:05pm |
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That’s awesome. We pass through close to that area a couple times a year on trips down to FL going south on 85. Lake Norman is nice but it’s tough to find smooth water here too with how crowded it can get on a weekend. Need to get out on weekdays! |
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bdillard
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Posted: December-21-2020 at 9:43pm |
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Would this be a good replacement solenoid if I were to try replacing that part?
https://www.westmarine.com/buy/sierra--18-5815-solenoid--460453 |
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bdillard
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Posted: December-21-2020 at 11:57pm |
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Also wondering if it’s be worth replacing my points, condenser, cap, and rotor. I’d imagine they’ve not been replaced in a long time, if ever.
If I were to replace the points and condenser, is it ok to grab those from an auto parts store (advance auto, autozone, etc) or try to track down from a marine dealer? |
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KENO
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Posted: December-22-2020 at 1:26am |
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Brad
If you want to drain the exhaust manifolds and you can't get the plugs out at the back of the manifolds, which seems to be your situation right now, there's a relatively easy solution. Your boat is a 1990 Sport Nautique......the engine sits relatively level, so if you pull the hoses off the inlet to each manifold and remove the 90 degree fitting on each manifold, and lower the front of the trailer as far down as you can, you'll be draining the manifolds.and you'll drain as much water out as you would by taking out the rear plugs. Those rear ones with a recessed 1/2 inch square drive are usually cast iron and if they haven't been out in who knows how long, they can be a real bear. The 90 degree fittings on the front are probably brass or could be nylon, but they don't rust and should be easier to get out. (with your luck so far though, ya never know }Then assuming you drained the engine, the J tube,the transmission oil cooler and suction strainer, you have the engine and manifolds drained and you can pour in antifreeze or leave it drained, whichever let's you sleep better By the way, the easiest way to drain the transmission cooler is by taking the hose from the cooler to the raw water pump off at the pump suction and making sure it's lower than the cooler and the cooler will drain. The cooler is a little delicate and the less you screw with the hose at the cooler or the little drain plug on the cooler, the better off you are. Then you can take it to your mechanic when he reopens if you're not feeling too confident about getting it all straightened out yourself
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KENO
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Posted: December-22-2020 at 1:58am |
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If you decide you're changing ignition parts, here are some Sierra numbers for ignition parts for your 90 which should be the screw down cap Prestolite distributor. These numbers work for getting parts from NAPA with a NAPA label on them.
The NAPA part number is the same as the Sierra part number Points 18-5303 Condenser 18-5347 Rotor 18-5403 Cap 18-5352 You can also get the solenoid at NAPA with the number in your link above 18-5815 If you're going to Advance or Autozone, they could maybe do some cross referencing to the Sierra numbers
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8122pbrainard
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Posted: December-22-2020 at 5:49am |
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No, a starter that continues to crank the engine wouldn't cause the no start. More likely is your idea of corroded contact faces on the point set. Runing a fine file or abrasive paper through closed points will clear that up. The cause of the running starter is a start relay (some call it a solenoid) with it's contacts welded together which allows current to continuously flow to the starter. The cause of the welded contacts is a weak, bad or wrong type of battery. You trying to start the engine could have run the battery down. Using a deep cycle battery rather than a starting type is another cause. You have mentioned using a "trickle" charger and these can also damage a battery. A charger that is continuously connected must be a type that ether shuts off when the battery is fully charged or have precise regulation of current to the battery. These are typically labled as "maintainers" Chris mentioned the Ohms of the relay coil. He's a little off as getting a Ohm reading of the coil will not check for welded contacts. If you do want to check the relay, you would get an Ohm reading across the two big posts where the big cables are connected. If you get a low near zero Ohm reading, then the contacts are welded together. If you don't, the contacts may have opened up but, get a new start relay anyway. Check the battery too. You can take it in for a load test at one of the auto supplies and remember, you do NOT want a deep cycle battey.
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bdillard
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Posted: December-22-2020 at 8:13am |
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@KENO - thanks! Awesome info in those posts.
@SNobsessed - I tried some sand paper between the contacts but that didn’t seem to solve the issue. The gap on the points seemed good based on my feeler gauge but I’m no expert again so I could be wrong. In regards to the trick charger, maybe I’m describing that poorly. It’s a car quest battery charger/maintainer. Battery is an Interstate Marine Cranking battery. Looks like 1000 cranking amps. Sounding like I need to buy me a multimeter and check some of the readings to try to locate where Im losing power maybe. Yesterday after cleaning off the contacts in the points I still wasn’t seeing any spark. Wondering if something down line is my issue. Or it’s bad points? Bad condenser? |
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8122pbrainard
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Posted: December-22-2020 at 8:40am |
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Brad, Get it load tested. If it doesn't test good and you decide to get another battery, there's no need to get a "marine" battery. All that basically gives you are terminal studs besides the normal lug type posts. A automotive starting works and you don't pay the extra for "marine".
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KENO
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Posted: December-22-2020 at 9:16am |
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Once you get the engine in a condition where Mother Nature won't damage it, then you can relax for the holidays and do some searching/reading about ignition systems here on CCF. Earlier you asked about a coil and SNobsessed told you to check it's resistance, it should have a primary resistance of about 1.5 ohms and a secondary resistance of about 8000 or so ohms. For some reason, I get the feeling that Advance is your favorite parts place and you probably are a SpeedPerks member and then you do computer orders with a 25% off coupon to save some money If you need a coil, a BWD E70 from Advance is a good choice, and also tucked away in the ignition circuit is a ballast resistor that could be bad and causing no spark. A good number for that would be a BWD RU-12 at Advance also. (it's about 1.3 ohms resistance) No fair buying a bunch of new parts without research and testing the old parts though. And now for one more 2 part question..............do you have a safety lanyard on the boat and is it plugged in? I'd hate to have the "no spark" be due to a lanyard that's not plugged in or defective |
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bdillard wrote: