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eric lavine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-08-2008 at 11:59am
two and half thousandths, correct
the 5 is a half of thousandth
the ring gaps should be in the.006 .014 range which would be 6 thousandths to 14 thousandsths, this of course is probably not your gap spec, i backed up and deciphered your piston to bore clearance which is one and a half to 2 and a half thousandths which is correct, sorry for sending you in the wrong direction...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-08-2008 at 12:33pm
No need for appologies...you only caused me to learn a little more. I think Ben is even interested in the marine application now, and he has offered a ton of info that I wouldn't have if I hadn't asked these questions. I'm picking up my intake from him tomorrow, and I'm painting parts till then.

FWIW, my ring gap is .017; measure fit.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-10-2008 at 4:15pm
Well all righty then! I sent a check to the gov't to cover my 'having fun' tax, checked my Karma, organized my emergency phone #'s, held a seance, and sacrificed a quart of oil(with ZDDP!) for CCF and for the spirits who watch over amateur engine builders. The cam and crank are in and turn like a Yamaha stereo knob...and Greg is smiling!

Thanks Guys!!!   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 87BFN owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-10-2008 at 7:25pm
Originally posted by BuffaloBFN BuffaloBFN wrote:

Well all righty then! I sent a check to the gov't to cover my 'having fun' tax,   


Greg what is that all about or are you kidding about that part?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-10-2008 at 10:48pm
Originally posted by 87BFN owner 87BFN owner wrote:

Originally posted by BuffaloBFN BuffaloBFN wrote:

Well all righty then! I sent a check to the gov't to cover my 'having fun' tax,   


Greg what is that all about or are you kidding about that part?

Of course I'm kidding, even this gov't couldn't pull that off! I did hear though that californians may soon be told how to set their thermostsats?!!? ...as gov't does; by threat of lethal force(do the math). There is a tax due upon death payable by your estate...and basically just because you died.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-12-2008 at 12:20am
we need an update Greg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-12-2008 at 9:57am
It's coming along nicely. The guys came over for darts last night, took one look at the stupid grin on my face and said "no problems then?". LOL
I do have a question though. Should I paint the flywheel or is there a good reason not to? It was nasty and rusty when I pulled it apart last summer so I could send the tranny to the gear spa. I cleaned it up then, and it's even cleaner now that it's back from the shop. I am taking the time to paint every little thing that didn't get painted from the factory before...like the backs of some parts and other parts that were behind something else. Here's a couple of quick shots. The first is for Eric...looking through #2, you'll see the transmission in it's warm winter bed(under the gray towel and full of fluid).


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-12-2008 at 11:41am
you can paint the flywheel but not the mounting surface, im sure you know that, use a self etching primer first so the paint bites. "the gear spa" I like that, it looks like your doing a fine job...looks like a nice well lit area your working in
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-12-2008 at 12:20pm
Thank you for the vote of confidence sir! It's funny you mentioned my well lit area because that's my storage room and is known as the batcave. It's only known that way 'cause it used to be very dark and piled high with whatever?!!? LOL

On the flywheel, I don't want to paint the mating surface because it wouldn't be a solid union and that would mess up my torque readings;right? I'll get the etching primer, Ben said it was a good idea as well. The whole engine painting thing is new to me, so please continue with the tips! We didn't paint the engines on the V-dubs for cooling reasons...only the sheet metal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-12-2008 at 1:31pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

I'm curious and have a related question on clearances. Living in the Midwest closed cooling systems are rare. Are marine engines with the closed cooling built with automotive clearance specs?


So, no one knows?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-12-2008 at 1:57pm
I have another one...my pcm manual says 135 lb. ins. for the oil pan bolts(4-bolt 454)...the chevy book says 7-9 ft. lbs. for 1/4" bolts and 9-11 ft. lbs. for 5/16" bolts. I know the conversion(x12 for in. lb.), but they all feel high to me. Thoughts?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-12-2008 at 3:48pm
For anyone yet less than convinced...Fel-Pro is the ticket! ...miles above whatever I used for the oil pan last summer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-12-2008 at 5:15pm
Greg, the torques sound correct, 9 inch lbs. is very little actually, a good tip if you have a stamped oil pan is to put the bolt areas on your vices flat surface and tap the bolt areas back to flat, if you look from the side the holes are probably mounded from the past. I use aviation permatex on assembly.. thats in case you have to take something back apart. no silicone except for the intake and harmonic balance bolt. inspect your harmonic balance carefully, especially at the rubber..make sure its not cracked.
Pete, i would think the engine builders would build them all to marine specs because i think they leave the factory a long block and the OEMS decide closed cooling or the other styles, its a good point though
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 87BFN owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-12-2008 at 6:51pm
Greg I was wondering because I know taxes vary from state to state. The engine looks like it is coming along well.

I normally repeene valve cover and oil pan bolt holes that way they seal better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-13-2008 at 10:07am
Originally posted by 87BFN owner 87BFN owner wrote:

Greg I was wondering because I know taxes vary from state to state.

No worries, that's just my cynical sense of humor.

Is it the norm to replace head bolts when rebuilding? I was making good time yesterday until I started cleaning my head bolts...got to the second and poof, the threads were gone?!!? I guess some were sealed better than others.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-13-2008 at 12:00pm
it is very common to use new head bolts, bye new (i like spending your money) you may also want to run a tap down the head bolt holes also to clean up the threads, be careful with the dirt that comes out of the holes. most newer engines when you buy a head set come with new bolts because of the stretch after a one time use. it is common to re-use on BBC or SBC but if you notice a problem with one of them replace them all. oh yeah another tip you may already know is dont use rags when cleaning parts, use brake cleaner and blow dry. over the years i have seen a couple trannys fail due to a clogged strainer and guess what they were clogged with? lint, and yes i know its not a tranny but the same principle applys cause i know someone is thinking that
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-13-2008 at 1:56pm
I called around and tuesday is the quickest I can get a new set. So I went digging in the box from the craigslist motor and found a near complete set...8 short and 22 long...2 long bolts short. My grandfather wouldn't have skipped a beat on this. He'd pick the 2 best from the old set and keep going. I, on the other hand, have an old physics class telling me that different bolts will have different characteristics. What do 'yall think? The 2 odd bolts in the pic are from the old set and show the one that went naked on me. The others were in the box.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-13-2008 at 2:03pm
I am very surprised that you can't find some place local with head bolts for a big block chevy in stock they should be pretty common. ARP is the ticket for such things you would get higher quality bolts that would allow you to increase the torque, perhaps a bit overkill for a stock to mild rebuild but hey we are spending your money not mine. To me the biggest issue in reusing yours is making sure they are all there and clean enough that you get a good torque reading from them on the install. If you doubt them, dont use them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-13-2008 at 2:08pm
a chain is only as good as its weakest link...
coat those bolts well with teflon pipe sealer cause im pretty sure some of them go into water passages

"if you see a problem with 1 replace them all and arp is an excellent choice as stated, Greg, you have time to wait if need be"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-13-2008 at 2:22pm
I think the bolts I just found are ARP. I know the rocker studs from his engine are. The bolt in the pic that is missing threads is from putting it under a rotary wire brush, but most of that set looks fine. The 'new' bolts appear to be in great shape, and I would have cleaned them and kept going except that 2 are missing. If I mix in 2 from the old set am I asking for trouble?

My cleaning meathod has been to soak in kerosene and then brush on the grinder, and then spray with brake parts cleaner. I'm nutz about things being clean.

Bottom line, I'm excited and probably acting like a kid in the candy store. Looks like I'll wait.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-13-2008 at 2:26pm
I'll get a new 'chain' Eric...and they all go into a water passage. I have permatex thread sealant(white) for that. Is the tape better?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-13-2008 at 2:46pm
no tape!!! use the permatex and dont be shy with it, it will also act as a thread lock. I f-n cringe when i hear the word teflon tape. i personally dont own teflon tape and i keep my tubes of silicone well hidden
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-13-2008 at 2:49pm
its a possibility that your bolts are corroded from sticking into the water passage,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-13-2008 at 2:59pm
Originally posted by eric lavine eric lavine wrote:

its a possibility that your bolts are corroded from sticking into the water passage,


I think that's exactly the case. Most of the original bolts were sealed pretty well. It's the 2 or 3 that were sticking down into the water without sealer that are rusted out on the bottom. It just looks like crud on the bolt until it hits the wire brush...then poof!   LOL

I must've misread the tape thing. I bought what Ben said to use...the permatex high temp thread sealer.

Speed bumps suck, but I have plenty on the list to do. I wonder how much longer a few of these bolts would've held?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-15-2008 at 1:27am
On my project goes; it turns out Joe was right, there were some BB head bolts in town. I found a little place called red line automotive, and he basically has everything the bigger stores don't stock. He's top end and has a pile of stuff including a set of ARP BB bolts...$20 cheaper than having to wait. I called GM first...and boy would I be bent if I owned that outfit! A set of bolts he actually had to look up were way past what he cared to do. Anyway, I chased the threads and they torqued down nicely. I'll do the lifters, rods, and rockers next. Will the rocker adjustment be as simple as it reads?

1. load the lifters
2. install rocker until tight (till the rod won't turn)
3. tighten 1 full turn
4. lock and done?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-15-2008 at 10:14am
some do some dont, i soak the lifters in oil overnight, they will prime when you turn the pump. then when adjusting the rockers you turn the pushrod until you feel a drag....0 clearance... then i go 3/4 to a full turn which this will start to colapse the lifter spring, if available you can also use a dial indicator to do this to but stick to the first method
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 87BFN owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-15-2008 at 7:50pm
I soak the lifters over night as well, but I prime them before installing them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-15-2008 at 8:34pm
The valvetrain is in and in good shape. Scorpion has a step by step online and I double checked with their tech.
Now I'm deciding how to do the intake. The edelbrock instructions say to leave out the end seals but that seems odd to me. Also, I'm not used to this nice gasket with what looks like blue silicone rings around the openings...and it has manifold restrictor plates I've never seen before either. Should I treat it like a head gasket or should I use rtv on the water ports and form-a-seal on the rest? I guess the restrictor plates wouldn't be there if I wasn't supposed to use them, but I don't remember them being there when I took it apart...

Edit/correction: the restrictor plates or some version of that were there when it came apart
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-15-2008 at 11:08pm
those restrictions are in the center of the gasket i would guess? only one per side per gasket? if so you leave them in, alot of times there is (without looking at it) a dry heat passage that goes up to the carb for the choke bi-metal to open up the choke when the engine warms, chances are you are using an electric choke which these passages will have no use. do as Edelbrock says and eliminate the end gaskets and i assume they want a bead of silicone instead. no silicone on the gasket
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-15-2008 at 11:32pm
Thanks Eric...looks like I'm going to need a FFM sticker for one of my valve covers!

My thing now is where to use what sealant. Paint both sides with form-a-seal and circle the water ports with rtv?
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