Debt

Give them the ol "hair folicle test"!! Let see if they pass then..

Wooo!

Better check your facts, Obama has deported more Mexicans than you think.

Check into it, and then repost. In fact look at the support from Mexicans for Obama, explain why the support is so low.


Shhesh.

davidg wrote: ononewheel wrote: davidg wrote: On Healthcare, get the government out of the way, and let the free market come in to compete, and costs will come down. Right now, the government won't let insurance companies compete across state lines. Its amazing what will happen to costs when you have competition. I am in the plastics industry, and I see it everyday. COSTS COME DOWN!!! When is the last time the government managed anything efficiently? They can't even send a letter out without losing money. Your above statement is exactly why we have a problem here. It's the race to the bottom. I know, let's just forgo our immigration laws and allow a bunch of Mexicans to come here and work for much lower wages.    Woooo! I could debate you on each point you made, but, this one is just too good to pass up. Are you saying you actually think our immigration laws are really being enforced?? You have got to be kidding me!! Obama doesn't want the Mexican's for their low cost labor....he wants them for their VOTES!!! Just ask the Governor of Arizona about all the "help" the Feds are offering her in the fight against illegal immigration. The Justice Dept. is suing Arizona because they ARE enforcing our laws. Obama has bent over backwards to pander to the Hispanic population as he knows he needs these votes to have a chance of winning the election.

So the justice dept. is suing because Arizona is enforcing the law, really? Nice, sort of like telling half of the truth.


Better check your facts on that too. They are suing, but not for the reason you stated.

State laws cannot preempt the Constitution, nor Federal Law, and that is what where relief is being sought in court. I know you'll say I am being a little too technical. But as a tea party sympathizer you should be all for upholding the Constitution, that is what they stand for after all, right?   

Wait I'll do you work on this one too.



Federal lawsuit

Here is the actual lawsuit, via Fox news

Checkmate.

ononewheel wrote: davidg wrote: ononewheel wrote: davidg wrote: On Healthcare, get the government out of the way, and let the free market come in to compete, and costs will come down. Right now, the government won't let insurance companies compete across state lines. Its amazing what will happen to costs when you have competition. I am in the plastics industry, and I see it everyday. COSTS COME DOWN!!! When is the last time the government managed anything efficiently? They can't even send a letter out without losing money. Your above statement is exactly why we have a problem here. It's the race to the bottom. I know, let's just forgo our immigration laws and allow a bunch of Mexicans to come here and work for much lower wages.    Woooo! I could debate you on each point you made, but, this one is just too good to pass up. Are you saying you actually think our immigration laws are really being enforced?? You have got to be kidding me!! Obama doesn't want the Mexican's for their low cost labor....he wants them for their VOTES!!! Just ask the Governor of Arizona about all the "help" the Feds are offering her in the fight against illegal immigration. The Justice Dept. is suing Arizona because they ARE enforcing our laws. Obama has bent over backwards to pander to the Hispanic population as he knows he needs these votes to have a chance of winning the election.    Here I did the work for you. Deportation More deportation news Even more, this one is homeland security Still want more?

OOW....Nice try my friend! Throwing numerous links at me to make me seem uninformed. I swear to god, if one was looking right at a bright blue sky, a liberal will throw hundreds of articles at you to convince one that the sky is really black, and that you don't know what you are talking about. Typical liberal tactics. I am used to it. Oh, then claim checkmate on the way out the door:).   

I read your articles on deportation, and I would urge others to as well. Nothing much new there or rock solid conclusions one way or the other. So, yes, I will grant you that deportation is up slightly under Obama. A 5% increase year over year, is not exactly a big deal, but, its better than nothing. I think everybody knows the Dems stance on illegal immigration. They are for it!!! Please don't try to deny that.

- Fact: Obama ran on a platform of comprehensive immigration reform in 2008. He garnered Hispanic support for his election then.

- Fact: When the dems held the House, the Senate, as well as the Presidency in 2009-10, they had a chance to pass immigration reform, but, they did not sir.
     --- Reason: Obama was too busy passing the Porkulus and Healthcare. He knew if he tackled comprehensive immigration too, a real firestorm would be set off, and the Dems would have lost even worse than they did last Nov.

This is the reason the Hispanics are so upset with Obama now. He promised he would do something, and he didn't. However, unless a Marco Rubio is on the ticket next November, I doubt the Hispanics will support Republicans in large percentages, as Republicans are firmly in support of the nations immigration laws. Obama gets waffly there. He likes to have it both ways. Appear to support the laws, but offer back door amnesty as he is doing now.   

- Fact: Obama likes to give speeches. He gives supportive speeches to pander to Hispanics, and they buy it. He is looking for cheap votes. Your articles state this.

- Fact: Obama gave a speech to a Hispanic group last year before the elections urging Hispanic voters to go out and "vote against, or punish our enemies"...ie...the Republicans (who firmly support immigration laws).

- Fact: Just a week or so back, the Justice Dept has announced that "they don't have the resources to deport non-criminal illegals". This is back door amnesty, and Obama hopes it will play well with Hispanics so he can get thier votes, while not angering the general population too much as many people may not follow politics as closely as we do.

Since you like links and articles, I will give you one. Attached is a statement from it....


In a radio interview that aired on Univision on Monday, Mr. Obama sought to assure Hispanics that he would push an immigration overhaul after the midterm elections, despite fierce Republican opposition.

“If Latinos sit out the election instead of saying, ‘We’re gonna punish our enemies and we’re gonna reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us,’ if they don’t see that kind of upsurge in voting in this election, then I think it’s gonna be harder and that’s why I think it’s so important that people focus on voting on November 2.”

Referring specifically to Republicans such as Senator John McCain, who are stressing border security and supporting strict immigration laws like Arizona’s anti-illegal immigration measure, Mr. Obama said, “Those aren’t the kinds of folks who represent our core American values.”

Obama Urges Hispanics to Punish Enemies of Immigration Reform

So you claim the laws are not being enforced.....

                  then
I correct you on a misleading statement you have made,

and you try to bring your argument back by saying there is some improvement, but not enough for me, so Ononewheel you are wrong and trying to call the sky black.

Obama's stance hasn't been much different than any other president, so he gets the blame.


++++ for doing a fine job on explaining the current lack of support for Obama by Mexicans.


I don't condone Obamas stance on "buying the Mexicans" we all know what is happening.

However, he is deporting them, and in record numbers. Yeah, not as fast as you would like, but nothing is working as fast as it should be right now.

I contend Obama wants them for the votes, and the republicans have already realized they don't need them anymore, they can treat all Americans like the Mexicans.


By the way, the Arizona law really amounts to requiring or allowing Arizona police to stop and require Mexicans to prove their citizenship.

That is messed up, and if you say it isn't you are. So an immigrant from Germany, or Canada doesn't have the same risks? Require it for you too, and you view might change. Imagine haveing to prove your citizenship over and over.

The US military is full of Mexicans, they are fighting for you.

I think the border patrol are the only ones hiring nowadays

so who would be paying these groups to come work the fields? maybe the North should come up with an emancipation again?
kill the incentive and they wont wanna come here

ononewheel wrote: So you claim the laws are not being enforced.....                   then Obama's stance hasn't been much different than any other president, so he gets the blame. However, he is deporting them, and in record numbers. Yeah, not as fast as you would like, but nothing is working as fast as it should be right now.

Obama has one aunt that succesfully fought deportation and now an uncle who is illegal and going through the courts, Do you think this might affect his views?

Bush wanted to build a wall but was for the most part succesfully blocked by democrats. A little different from Obamas stance of only deporting violent criminals. He may be deporting record numbers but I know you like percentages for fairness, I bet as a percent of the growing illegal hispanic polulation in the US, deportation numbers are down.

I find it rather ironic that when we went to Mexico earlier this summer, the Mexican immigration offic had to have my great-grandmothers social security number before I could get into or out of their beautiful country. But, the Mexican government seems to condone illegal immigration into the US. I love how the Mexican government also condems Arizona's strong anti-illegal immigration laws. Can you say hypocrasy???

We have laws in this country for a reason. I think Obama, and Bush for that matter too, have ignored our immigration laws to the dentriment of this country. Immigration is fine, but just make sure it LEGAL immigration.

I also don't buy this BS of "Well, we need the illegals....American's won't do the work they do". BS again. With the unemployment rate at 9%+, people will work!!

So the solution to the problem is...........

Nothing, that's it, nothing, zero. Do nothing.   

Don't spend. Cut everything. All of it.

Don't raise a bit more money. None, zero. Not one penny.

The Governemnt is you, that is like starving yourself.

Yep, sounds like that'll lead to a wonderful nation, with progress being made to take us someplace better than here.

That about sums up the tea party and the party whom have ridden the tea party coat tails for far too long. Can't we just gather the tea party and ship them all to live in Texas, separate from the US?


Yeah, school funding and union jobs are our problem.
Sure. You say that like it is our main problem.

I say one thing, if the Republicans are going to stand firm against everything Obama does for the next 14 months, and show the reckless grandstanding they have done with the debt ceiling, they will experience poor results in any election, regardless of Obama's actions.

It should all be on the table. Immigation, taxes, healthcare, military funding, war spending, TAXES, job creation, school funding.

Cut some Raise some.

Who the hell would say, "we are not meeting budget, hummm, I will just cut expenses, and never ever look at raising revenue."?
Corporations do just that.

***************, I don't care if I get ALL payroll taxes back every week. What does that get me, groceries? Maybe, but with two boys, not likely.
I need more, I cut and raise. Both Simple.


I'm voting whoever isn't riding the Tea party express.

once again, kill the incentives, track down the fat cats that hire these people, they arnt sight seeing they are coming here to work and that means a bonified US citizen is paying them.....those are the guys you have to go after.
fck, their killing eachother off at a fast rate anyways down there because of the drug trade

ononewheel wrote: So the solution to the problem is........... Nothing, that's it, nothing, zero. Do nothing.    Don't spend. Cut everything. All of it. Don't raise a bit more money. None, zero. Not one penny. The Governemnt is you, that is like starving yourself. Yep, sounds like that'll lead to a wonderful nation, with progress being made to take us someplace better than here. That about sums up the tea party and the party whom have ridden the tea party coat tails for far too long. Can't we just gather the tea party and ship them all to live in Texas, separate from the US? Yeah, school funding and union jobs are our problem. Sure. You say that like it is our main problem. I say one thing, if the Republicans are going to stand firm against everything Obama does for the next 14 months, and show the reckless grandstanding they have done with the debt ceiling, they will experience poor results in any election, regardless of Obama's actions. It should all be on the table. Immigation, taxes, healthcare, military funding, war spending, TAXES, job creation, school funding. Cut some Raise some. Who the hell would say, "we are not meeting budget, hummm, I will just cut expenses, and never ever look at raising revenue."? Corporations do just that. ***************, I don't care if I get ALL payroll taxes back every week. What does that get me, groceries? Maybe, but with two boys, not likely. I need more, I cut and raise. Both Simple. I'm voting whoever isn't riding the Tea party express.

Cuting and raising depend on your situtation. The government can get short term money by raising taxes and deficit spending but that decreases their income long term. The other solution is to create the conditions for growth, which pays off short and long term.

If one is in the situation where they have dined out nightly on steak and lobster, and now they are not only fat and sluggish but they have maxed out thier home equity line and all their credit cards, the problem is not likely to be solved by a few percent more income. They can ask for increases in their credit limit but this will only dig them into a deaper hole. At some point they must take a look in the mirror and say I am fat, bloated, sluggish and broke because I have been self indulgent and irresponsible. This is a great point to starve yourself, it saves money and starts to make you leaner, the next step is exercise, looking for ways proactive ways to cut the excess fat and speed the process. This is not easy. It takes dedication to the tasks. It invovles a lot of whining, It hurts to watch those around you indulge while you miss out on the "good things". But in the long term you reduce the stress on your systems both physical and finacial, you feel good that you made the changes and you live longer. You end up wonderfull and in a better place. Or you can get another credit card, keep dining out on steak and lobster, maybe add some shrimp, and then try to dig yourself out of a deeper whole later. The writing is on the wall, it says wake up!!!!!


I would love to have a few states that were all republican and a few that were all democrat just to see what the end result would be. What a cool experiment.

OMG finally, one is not looking to the government to solve a problem. the core of this discussion was just realized.
funny how things work, my friend was bragging just yesterday, both his daughter and son in law work in DC, both cracking 70 ish a year.I laughed cause he sends them money to get them out of a jam frequently.
my wife doesnt work, so i dont bring in close to those 2 figures combined.....heres the difference, they are paying 3500.00 month for a roof over there heads, probably 2 big car payments, everything is twice the price.

I vowed years ago not to have 2 car payments, yeah yeah, spur the economy, now im down to no car payments, and on the weekends i can go get my lobster, i dont own a credit card, only one for the business, pay cash for everything.......im a different person not worrying about keeping up with the joneses...and i have cash set aside to put the kids thru at least 2 years of college, but invested for when the time comes (if the pubbies dont rob me anymore) they should be able to do the 4 year stint. to me thats what its all about

phospher wrote: davidg wrote: I also don't buy this BS of "Well, we need the illegals....American's won't do the work they do". BS again. With the unemployment rate at 9%+, people will work!! Wait, I thought they would rather sit back and collect unemployment and live off welfare? Ya know, the luxuries of a couple hundo a week and cable TV! Nothing like living the dream without having to work! And OverMyHead, Calling Buffet a "tax cheat" because his corporate accountant­s for Berkshire Hathaway took tax positions on deductions that IRS disagreed with is an ignorant ad hominem attack with no basis in fact. According to IRS regulation­s, an aggressive tax position on deductibil­ity of expenses is not considered "frivolous­" if the position has at least a 1 in 3 chance of prevailing­. Furthermore, Warren Buffet knows what's written in his own annual report long before it's been released to everyone else, and certainly long before he made his statements regarding the American tax inequalities­­.

Phil, you are the one complaining about loopholes and write offs, now when yout buddy Warren use them it is agressive tax accounting?....which is it?