1974-351 windsor intake |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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I tried one before the head change Tim. Reid let me try an OJ 12x13 and a Federal 12x14.The Federal was better up to the high 30's and 4k then neck and neck with the OJ.The OJ did give me an extra 100 rpm's at wot. I'm still using the Federal. The head chamber volume is really close to my originals,my old heads,D20E-BA were 58.3 and the P's are 58.8 In my haste to put the heads on,I forgot to cc my block,but my flat top pistons are .030 over.So I don't know what my compression ratio really is. |
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Cslaten33
Senior Member Joined: December-21-2009 Location: Tulsa, OK Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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Gary what does all that mean?
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Thanks Clark Slaten
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Cslaten33
Senior Member Joined: December-21-2009 Location: Tulsa, OK Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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Okay I screwed the pooch on this one. Next time I won't buy anything until I make a thread and let it get kicked around for atleast two weeks. But for real with the specs. I left earlier on the cam and going with the RPM intake. What do you guys think I will run? If someone would like to cutt me a check for the GT40P heads fell free. LOL
Thanks for letting me know I screwed up on the Intake and cam purchase. When were young we can't win them all. Especially since my boat has 11 years on me. Thanks Clark Slaten |
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Thanks Clark Slaten
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Bottom line it means I spent some money and got nothing--- yet. So I have to spend some more |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21171 |
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Clark, that cam doesnt look too bad, actually- if you were upgrading the heads, that is. Usually the cam is the final piece of the puzzle- a good cam builder will take all the other components and specs (heads, intake, compression ratio, etc) into consideration, talk to you about the application and your goals, and them come up with a recommendation that will work best. That being said, that Comp Cam isnt too far off what I have in my '90 (351w with GT40p/Stealth/etc). I would highly recommend you make a decision on the heads first, then pick an intake, and then call Cam Research instead. They only do Fords and they do ski boats- many of us here have been very pleased with their products.
Gary, Ive noticed about a 200rpm difference between the OJ 12x13 and Federal 12x14 (the OJ running higher). I thought the holeshot with the OJ was better though. Top end was close. The Acme 1210 Im running now turns 100 more rpm than the OJ. The engine seems to like more RPM... of course my Skier is only turning 4200, 4400, and 4500 with the 3 props, respectively... its an underperformer. Do you still have your cam specs? |
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5778 |
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Tim, I was going to say the same about the cam, it'snot a bad piece but no matter what I do in Desktop dyno it's not performing with those old heads. It's making about the same power but has moved it in a higher rpm range.
Stock 351 Clarks 351 with the comp cam and performer intake, stock heads Clarks 351 with gt40p heads, comp cams and performer intake It has certainly broadened the torque curve though. I was expecting more out it than that even with the gt40p heads. I would still give Scott a call and see what he thinks of it. The lift numbers seem to be decent but the timing events are different than ours. |
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You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails
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Cslaten33
Senior Member Joined: December-21-2009 Location: Tulsa, OK Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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Hey thanks for all the great advise.
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Thanks Clark Slaten
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21171 |
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Wow, thats quite a bit different than the one you ran for me (stock exhaust). With the P heads and my Cam Research stick (.490/.490, 218/222), my peak power was 311 @ 5000 and max torque was 396 @ 3000rpm. What a difference a cam can make! Much better than than the 280ish hp with the Comp, and a huge difference in the torque numbers as well (or was the scale on the right different?). |
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5778 |
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That's why it took me so long to get this posted Tim. The numbers don't add up and I wanted to check everything. Although the lift on that comp cam is close to what you're running the valve timing events are not so that must be the difference. I guess Cam research specializing in Fords plus the fact that he's run ski boats for years must be worth something.
Also don't overlook the stock exhaust manifolds and mufflers. |
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You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails
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Cslaten33
Senior Member Joined: December-21-2009 Location: Tulsa, OK Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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I don't know if this makes a differnce but I'm running stock mannifolds with straight pipes.
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Thanks Clark Slaten
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5778 |
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Biggest problem with this program is that it really doesn't allow for marine exhaust so there are some assumptions I have to make get reasonable results. The stock manifolds and mufflers option is about as close as I can come to what we have on our boats for exhaust. The next option is headers with mufflers and the number jump nice and high but it's not practical for us unfortunately. |
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You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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I hope Clark doesn't mind my hijacking,but I thought it would help him too. Tim, I'm running a Holley 450cfm carb on a Holley Contender dual plane manifold with stock rocker arms.The Federal runs @ 4200 and the OJ @ 4300. With my old prop, 12x13 and old heads it would run 5k but it was 3mph slower. Here is the cam card-
One other thing is this and I'm not really sure you can compare the two because of throttle settings and load,is Marshalls seems to ride further back than mine,what do you think? See what you get mixed up with Clark ?,it's addicting, and now I'm driving to Florida next month to get a fix |
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5778 |
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Tim getting back to the cam, there's a module of desktop dyno called Pro Iterator and what it does is take the engine you enter in the system and run test simulations on it based on user input. For instance, I ran a sim of Clarks engine as it sits now with the stock heads, his comp cam and a basic dual plane intake. The program takes his cam lift and then runs simualtions using differentcam event timing and tries to define better specs for torque, HP, torque or HP under the curve.
When I ran Clarks motor the program came up with 11,300 different interations and it found him 29.5 hp using teh same lift on his comp cam but spec'ing new timing events. Only problem I have with it is it's an advanced feature that I have to buy and add on so it lets me use it and shows what I could achieve but won't give me the specs to get there without buying the upgrade. I also ran yours and it only found 3.2 HP so again cam research is pretty darn close on these things. I'll buy the upgrade soon because it could be interesting and you know if I wasn't working on teh Hurricane the "other" tool box would be out. With my heads, I find I am really under cammed. Came up with about 16 hp (396 at 5600rpm)and stretched the torque out further to the right. I know this is all speculating but it is fun. |
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You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5778 |
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Gary I'll try to set up a run on your motor, give a day or so as I have to do it on my work computer.
Marshalls boat rides beatifully in that picture, Thats what we all shoot for but few of us get it. You'ld have to ask Reid if they ever took the grinder to it You'ld be amazed at the punny little cam in that boat but it's running some major compression, I believe close to 11:1 IIRC. Another Pinkham Penninsula freak. |
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You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Here's one I found with a little more speed,but still looks to me, bow down.
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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No hurry Alan,just sitting here dreaming,since we broke the back of winter
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21171 |
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Gary, those numbers are underperforming for sure. If I didnt know that you had removed all your foam, Id say you were carrying some extra weight! Something is definitely going on there...
Marshall's boat definitely rides bow high. I dont believe its ever been ground- if it has, it was minimal. I believe Reid's baby blue ran more bow-low initially, and it took a lot of grinding to even them up. |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Maybe I'M heavier ???
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Tim - Just curious - what do they grind on the hull? Do they take the hook out? |
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21171 |
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Correct- the intention of the grinding is to lessen the effect of the hook, or eliminate it completely. |
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Cslaten33
Senior Member Joined: December-21-2009 Location: Tulsa, OK Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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How do you guys know about all of this???
The company that I bought my cam from, do you guys think they will take it back for exchange since it is still in the plastic wrap and box?? |
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Thanks Clark Slaten
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Cslaten33
Senior Member Joined: December-21-2009 Location: Tulsa, OK Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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Guys if the new engine wasn't the same rotation what would I have to do to make everything work?????????
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Thanks Clark Slaten
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PAPA
Senior Member Joined: October-06-2009 Location: Fremont, In Status: Offline Points: 202 |
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Clark, If I am assuming correctly,you have purchased a LH 351 long block and your original engine was a RH reverse rotation engine. If this is the case you would need to change the starter to a LH standard rotation starter. You would have to change the prop to a LH prop. You would need to reindex your transmission pump 180 degrees to flow properly and also turn your RWP around to flow the opposite way.The distributor would also have to be changed to a LH. Off the top of my head I can't think of anything else but there might be more to do. This can all be done easily but are you sure you want to do it.
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Wouldn't it be better to just convert the new long block to RH rotation? That would just be changing the cam, which he already has?
Maybe the crank seal too? |
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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hotboat
Gold Member Joined: March-28-2009 Location: Conn Lake Pa Status: Offline Points: 814 |
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and pistons backards
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Brian
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Cslaten33
Senior Member Joined: December-21-2009 Location: Tulsa, OK Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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I think I will just send that engine back and get the right one. Since they did ship me the wrong engine to start with? What do you guys think? while I'm at it I will go ahead and price a fuel injected engine to.
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Thanks Clark Slaten
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storm34
Grand Poobah Joined: November-03-2008 Location: Dexter Iowa Status: Offline Points: 4492 |
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I'm sure someone else will chime in about the fuel injection, but what is your purpose for switching from a carb?
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Cslaten33
Senior Member Joined: December-21-2009 Location: Tulsa, OK Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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better throtle responce in colder weather.
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Thanks Clark Slaten
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Clark, You've never mentioned you were building a ice breaker!! I thought you were going to restore the boat?? |
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Cslaten33
Senior Member Joined: December-21-2009 Location: Tulsa, OK Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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Well When I have to boat apart I would like to upgrade as much as possible. Do you guys not like upgrading things? Or do you guys just really like things back to original as much as possible?
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Thanks Clark Slaten
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