Normal amt of rust at drain plugs? |
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spiralhelix
Senior Member Joined: August-06-2014 Location: IL/WI Status: Offline Points: 496 |
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Pete, Are these the bushings that you recommend?
McMaster-Carr Bushings Item # 4429k418 3--4921K2 Drain-Handle Brass Stop Cock, Removable Handle, 1/4" NPT Male, Internal Seal $6.85 each 2--4921K3 Drain-Handle Brass Stop Cock, Removable Handle, 3/8" NPT Male, Internal Seal 7.82 each 2--4429K418 Low-Pressure Brass Threaded Pipe Fitting, 3/4 Male x 3/8 Female Pipe Size, Hex Reducing Bushing 4.33 each |
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Hey guys, it's just a drain . . .
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Clark, Not wanting to steer anyone in the wrong direction could you please clarify what type of drain cocks you used. Were they the removable stem or the cheap cocks used typically on radiators? A picture if possible would be fantastic. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Yup, those are the parts. |
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7953 |
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Jeepers, if I can't handle a drain plug I've got no business working on the engine. The drain plugs are hex heads, except for the FE which has little tiny plugs with square heads. Doesn't sound like a bad system if you use your boat late into the season and you have to drain after each use, but once a season, seems unnecessarily complicated, but some people like to put all kinds of gadgets on their engines.... |
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DrCC
Grand Poobah Joined: April-12-2004 Location: at home Status: Offline Points: 2867 |
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The reason quite a few people install the fancy brass drains, is when the threads in the block and manifolds start to erode to the point where the hex plugs are bottoming out.
The fumbling is about the same with each. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Al, Thanks for bringing that up. I forgot the corrosion of the tapped holes when I was working Bruce over about wrenches, pipe compound and of course the fumbling! I have to disagree with you on the fumbling being about the same. I'm sure you've tried to thread a fitting into a tapped hole that's on an uneven surface like a block before. |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3734 |
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Someone asked earlier in this thread why the new fitting rides higher than the old fitting in the block. The Tapered pipe thread fittings like those used in the stock block plugs seal on the points of the threads. As these are used time and again the points flatten down and the plug tightens deeper in the block. Eventually a new plug is needed and the new plug will ride high in the hole like the one pictured early in this thread because it has new fresh threads and the points are not flattened down yet. If you have one leaking after you tighten it buy a new plug or use Teflon tape as a band aid till you get a new plug.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Mark, I think you had better read up on taper pipe thread tolerances! |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Mark,
Just in case you didn't find the information, here's an sentence explaining the gaps at the major and minor diameters of a NPT thread that you refer to as the "points ot the threads" From the Engineers Toolbox: "With NPT threads, after a wrench is applied, slight spaces at the major and minor diameters exist that would allow the assembly to leak and therefore a sealing compound is used to fill any gaps." |
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desertskier
Platinum Member Joined: December-19-2006 Location: Az Status: Offline Points: 1115 |
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So after just pulling the plugs and sticking a screwdriver in the holes at the end of each season for the last 23 years now I have to add drain cocks, bushings, hoses and use teflon tape. I should stop reading threads like these.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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You may want to consider it. After me winterizing for 50 years, I sure appreciate the convenience! |
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Cumby
Senior Member Joined: February-03-2014 Location: Upstate SC Status: Offline Points: 209 |
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Pete, does this look like what I need? Looked at some hardware stores this weekend but no luck. Probably just order some. |
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99 Ski Nautique GT40
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Glen,
Yes, those are brass reducing bushings. Have you ordered the removable stem stop cocks yet? If not, you can order the bushings (link at top of page) at the same time from McMaster. |
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Cumby
Senior Member Joined: February-03-2014 Location: Upstate SC Status: Offline Points: 209 |
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Yeah, I already have them but Ill check their prices too. Thanks.
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99 Ski Nautique GT40
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Cumby
Senior Member Joined: February-03-2014 Location: Upstate SC Status: Offline Points: 209 |
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OK guys. I tried to install the drains yesterday and ran into a few problems. On the exhaust drain, it sticks out so far with the bushing on it that I couldn't get even close to screwing it in because of the exhaust slopping down right behind it. Even if I can get it in, I don't see how I could turn the handle to open the drain? Been trying to upload a pic but having issues. Ill see if I can do it straight from my phone.
In the 1/4 block drains, I couldn't get the threads to catch. I know you guys said new threads will be tighter and it won't go in as far, but It felt like it was not going in straight and was going to screw in at an angle if I forced it. I didn't get too aggressive with it because I didn't want to mess up any threads. Perhaps I didn't give it enough force, but Ive always thought you shouldn't force them avoid messing up the threads. The regular plug catches the threads and goes in easy. |
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99 Ski Nautique GT40
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7953 |
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Cumby, I've never seen drain cocks on exhaust manifolds, but this system is common on both Correct Crafts and Malibus. Both manifolds are connected to each other by a hose with a union in the middle for easy disconnect and draining. I'd do this rather than put a drain cock in each manifold if you want to eliminate the plugs.
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7953 |
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Cumby, I should qualify that I've never seen drain cocks on modern manifolds with the big hole at the end. They are common on 1950's and 1960's stuff.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Glen,
For some reason with pipe threads on brass fittings, it's common for them to run over (male) and under (female) sized. I have always found a need to set the pipe threader to cut undersize threads on male pipe because the female threads in the fittings where under. The same is true with purchased male threaded fittings. I've had to run a tap in and open up the females many times which is what you'll need to do. What compounds the problem on the block or any casting is the rough uneven surface which makes it hard to get the male thread started. Chase the threads cutting 1 full extra thread and see if you can get the drain cocks started. On your exhaust manifolds, I think I know what the problem is but it's too bad you are having picture problems since that sure would help. I remember someone having a problem with swinging the drain cock because it hit the elbow. He installed brass 45 degree elbows solving it and with the 45 was still able to probe the drain with a wire to get to the sediment. How far is the bushing going into the manifold? That may also be a problem requiring some tapping. Rule of thumb when fitting pipe threads together is you should be able to turn them together 2 to 2&1/2 times by hand before needing the wrench. It's not a bad idea to chase the old threads anyway to clean them up. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Bruce, Of course you haven't since he is adding them. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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poz
Groupie Joined: January-13-2011 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 52 |
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I have owned four used inboard boats. Three of them had problems with the drain plugs. Two of them had rounded drain plugs and one I Had to remove with a bolt extractor. The other one the threads were so loose in the block the plug bottomed out so I installed the cheep radiator drains and used some locktite on the threads. I wonder if this problem isn't a combination of corrosion and over torque. I sure like the drains that you guys show from McMaster Carr. I am thinking these drains would save the threads on a lot of boat engines water drains. Another thing I have found that Whink will remove those rust stains on your carpet.
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Cumby
Senior Member Joined: February-03-2014 Location: Upstate SC Status: Offline Points: 209 |
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Not going in far at all. Probably not even one full turn by hand. I was a little nervous about chasing the threads, because it didn't feel like the tap was going in smoothly and I didnt want to force it and mess the threads up. Sounds like thats what I need to do though, |
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99 Ski Nautique GT40
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Cumby
Senior Member Joined: February-03-2014 Location: Upstate SC Status: Offline Points: 209 |
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That looks like it would work. I will try to post the picture from work tomorrow and see if I have any more luck from my PC.
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99 Ski Nautique GT40
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Cumby
Senior Member Joined: February-03-2014 Location: Upstate SC Status: Offline Points: 209 |
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Here we go.
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99 Ski Nautique GT40
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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How about taking it apart and installing it in pieces,thread in the reduction bushing first, remove the T from the drain,install it's body,then put the T back in?
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Cumby
Senior Member Joined: February-03-2014 Location: Upstate SC Status: Offline Points: 209 |
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Tried that. If you look at the pic the bushing is not flush with the opening...it's tilted down a bit so it would have to go even higher than where I'm holding it. I think the only possibility is to try the angled pieces Pete posted. |
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99 Ski Nautique GT40
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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The bushing sure has to go deeper into the manifold and then with the 45 it would work however, it looks like that would require the glass exhaust tube to be removed. That must have been what the member I mentioned did to install his.
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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With the amount and size of rust and scale I tend to get out of my cast iron manifolds, I would have the same concerns with the massively stepped down drain of Pete's as the quick drains from SkiDIM that he dislikes so much, ha. Both seem to be bad ideas to me. They're probably fine on the block drains though, those seem to get plugged up with much smaller sediment and could be probed effectively through the smaller orifice.
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