1962 Interceptor transmission

JoeinNY wrote: 62 wood wrote: Gary S wrote: skook wrote: sometimes have gotten up to 2000rpm I think thats how all 6cyl Fords run,right Steve    Ouch! Gary, actually, I got the old 6 banger up to redline a few weeks ago. Still has a high speed flat spot, but I think that is in carb adjustment. Dammit steve what was the answer..how you gonna leave us hanging like that!

A 6" pitch prop!

The shift lever pushes easily into the forward position with a consistent/even feel to it. By "knucking" I assume you mean when the shifter feels like it has a home when you engage it---like it "clicks/thumps into a position"?...Engaging into forward does not currently behave that way.

I'm not sure how to determine what kind of oil was put in, but I certainly plan on pumping it out and replacing. Is there a way to type the current oil???

I'm still struggling with the idea that tighening up the drum will fix the whole problem. I suppose it would fix the slipping problem under load, but I'm not sure how the problem I have with the prop being gently engaged in neutral will go away---still seems to me that'll stay the same or just get worse.

In an earlier post you mentioned putting a feeler gauge between the plates. I don't even see the plates. Does anyone have access to a manual or exploded diagram so I can see whats what? It seems like the plates are hidden by the drum?

Did some homework and this is my best guess of how this trans works. I'm sure many of you know this, so don't be offended...I'm writing this mostly to confirm my understanding. I believe its a planetary transmission that works similar to the original transmissions that were in the first cars, as well as transmissions in some older steam rollers. The reverse is engaged by locking the reverse drum/gear and thus forcing the three planetary gears to turn, thus forcing the drive gear to turn, thus driving the driving plate, drive shaft, etc. Stepping up or stepping down the gear ratio would make it "creep" forward or reverse...In this application, only reverse is necessary. That's also why reverse sounds so "whiney"...you're essentially driving the drive shaft through gears. In forward, you're activating the clutch disks that essentially make a "direct drive" between engine and drive shaft (1:1 rpm), and instead of the planetary gears orbiting and turning, they just orbit. I think its a fair assumption the clutch disks are enclosed in the drum in the center of my picture, so visible inspection isn't possible within disassembly.

Here's a great article that shows the same in principle/theory
http://www.modeltcentral.com/transmission_animation.html#animation

More thoughts to come...

Andy

Hi, all
I am trying to adjust my Paragon/IXE? transmission and have the same guts pictured here inside. I can't figure out how to rotate the adjustment disc to put the set screw into the 'next' position. Does anyone have hints on how to do this?

thanks so much!

-chaz

Its a 1968 Cheoy Lee. I've had more luck finding info on the transmission from Correct Craft and Chris Craft sites than any other.
Do you mean to hold the rim/hub that the set screw sits in stationary and rotate the propeller shaft? or another part? I can't quite see how to fit anything in to get a purchase on the actual disc the set screw holds to turn it. The actual paragon manual pictures a set screw that is perpendicular to the shaft and the castle nut/adjustment wheel is big and its teeth exposed.

thanks again!
chaz

The sails only work when there is wind, which only happens when I'm at the office. :+)

-chaz

I found this image somewhere else on the internet.
I have loosened #1.
Would getting a screwdriver into the slots in threads be what you meant by holding the forward end stationary?

again, thanks for the guidance!
-chaz

Yatzee! I the bolt is long and must be pretty far out to allow the jub to spin in/out (or rather tighten/loosen) As I have to hang over the top of the engine and and am doing this upside down, and feel for the holes blindly whilst balancing to not fall headfirst into the bilge... I got it adjusted! Now, to finish putting the engine back together and test it out!

Am I right in thinking the forward and reverse adjustments are somewhat connected as far as they are balanced over the 'neutral' zone? Can I adjust one and test it before touching the other? or must they be adjusted at the same time?

thanks!
chaz

Haha< as
I wrote that it did occur to me that a C-Craft would not have the troubles.
But, we can't live aboard one. :+)

-chaz

I've adjusted the forward shift feel so it no longer takes the extreme jerk/yank it used to to engange. Now at the transmission it feels more like a smooth detent/knuckling over. In reconnecting the rod linkages I determined the weight of the shift lever in the cockpit keeps steady pressure on the transmission towards forward- that slight leaning seems to be what is pressing the forward clutch enough to make the propeller spin and move the boat forward in 'neutral'. So perhaps the lever/linkage system needs to be set to balance the lever at 12TDC to keep the transmission from engaging either way. I have read that the Paragons don't have a real neutral, but a zone where there is no pressure on the forward or reverse clutch discs.

more fiddling!

thanks,
-chaz

if you pull the shift lever into reverse it will hold the drum so you can spin the adjusting collar.
to concur, some Paragons will also knuckle into reverse depending on model, at times I have seem them adjusted to far thus not letting them knuckle into reverse (over-adjusted)

One place i read that is: here.
Though I am unclear if there should be a positive lock into reverse. At the moment, on the transmission pushing the lever all the way aft will lock in reverse- so I guess that is correct. I had read that reverse is supposed to be held at the lever to engage and there wasn't a real lock.
I wonder if the main problem is that the shifter lever sits at 9o'clock for 'neutral' and its weight pushing down is slightly engaging forward. There isn't much play in the linkage so where or how do you add in a positive feeling neutral position? Am I totally missing something?
-chaz

Knuckling into reverse is fine with me, and seems to be how this model likes it. I had started all this investigation as I wanted to know why the boat moved forward in idle, and that the feel of shifting forward at the lever never really locked- just got stiffer and stayed. I was afraid that not feeling it lock would allow it to pop back into neutral. after running for year since getting the boat it never did pop back out, but I wanted to know if it could be made to have a more positive feeling shift.

After playing with the lever on the transmission with the linkages disconnected I discovered:
-it took bodily weight to shift into and out of forward and reverse
-neutral (no friction on propshaft, it was easy to turn by hand) was achieved when the lever was at 12o'c
-moving the lever fore/aft more than a couple of degrees began adding friction on the propeller shaft making turning it by hand impossible.
-there was not firm feel to this neutral position, just letting it rest at 12o'c

after adjusting the forward clutch tension:
-it took less force to shift into forward at the transmission, but not too light as I thought that might lead to slipping.
-at the shift lever in the cockpit now there is a definite feel of knuckling into forward.

I just hope I'm not adjusting too many things at once and not being scientific enough in my troubleshooting.

It has been very helpful hearing from others their experience in handling these transmissions and how they work them- things the manuals never get into.

thanks,
chaz

Chaz,
Ok, you're good with the oil.

If I'm reding correctly, you lossened up the clutch pack so it didn't need as much force to put the trans in forward correct? If so, just keep watching and listening for any slippage.

Everything sounds normal and typical of a manual trans. Run it and see what happens.

Whew! Sounds like I'm heading in the right direction (some pun intended).
The engine is a Westerbeke 4-107, we call it Satan since was a real pain in the but when we first got it, and its red. :+)

-chaz