Boats For Sale:
Transmission toast? |
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Wilhelm Hertzog 
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Joined: June-14-2014 Location: Cape Town Status: Offline Points: 334 |
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 Posted: August-29-2021 at 5:12pm |
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I managed to track down a local SKF agent who can supply me with the right sleeve (CR 99193 or its Gold version CR 99833) that will cost me far less than a new coupler, so I'm going to sleeve it and see how it goes.
After more than three months, the rebuild parts I ordered from Basic Power Industries eventually arrived last week. So I got back into the build process this weekend, and only paid a close look at the belleville spring for the first time today after cleaning it up - pictures below. It looks pretty worn to me - specifically there's a very noticeable groove worn into it where it contacts the clutch spring bearing ring . Due for replacement I guess? Or still re-usable?    |
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1982 Ski Nautique PCM351W RR II Velvet Drive 10-17-003 1:1 II PerfectPass Stargazer
Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light. |
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KENO
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Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11112 |
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Posted: August-30-2021 at 9:34am |
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I think I'd replace it
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FFImarine
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Posted: August-30-2021 at 11:04am |
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Replace it. I should have some in stock if you wanna get it from me
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You break it I’ll fix it
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Wilhelm Hertzog
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Posted: August-31-2021 at 1:50am |
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Thanks a lot Joe, I'll PM/email you.
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1982 Ski Nautique PCM351W RR II Velvet Drive 10-17-003 1:1 II PerfectPass Stargazer
Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light. |
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Wilhelm Hertzog
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Joined: June-14-2014 Location: Cape Town Status: Offline Points: 334 |
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Posted: September-01-2021 at 4:18am |
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And here is a picture of my input shaft, which also looks like the surface on which the seal runs is not in great shape (apologies about the poor lighting, but this is the best resolution picture of the shaft I could get). Plan is to sleeve this as well. SKF CR 99138 (or 99819 for the Gold version) seems to be the right one.
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1982 Ski Nautique PCM351W RR II Velvet Drive 10-17-003 1:1 II PerfectPass Stargazer
Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light. |
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Gary S
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Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Posted: September-01-2021 at 6:18am |
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I had the same problem years ago on my Mustang. One of those sleeves fixed it right up. Dont remember the size though.
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Wilhelm Hertzog
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Posted: September-01-2021 at 6:45am |
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Basic Power Industries very helpfully provides the dimensions of the sleeves on their website.
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1982 Ski Nautique PCM351W RR II Velvet Drive 10-17-003 1:1 II PerfectPass Stargazer
Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light. |
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Wilhelm Hertzog
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Joined: June-14-2014 Location: Cape Town Status: Offline Points: 334 |
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Posted: September-01-2021 at 8:37am |
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Can someone perhaps shed some light for me on the following? This service manual says on page 37 to use twelve reverse clutch pressure plate springs, but this service manual says on page 22 (page 30 of the PDF) to use only eleven. Which service manual is right? If eleven is the right number, why on earth would the pressure plate be machined with twelve spring holes, and not only eleven?
My transmission had twelve springs installed, and the spring kit comes with 12 springs, which suggests twelve is the magic number, but I want to be sure to get it right.
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1982 Ski Nautique PCM351W RR II Velvet Drive 10-17-003 1:1 II PerfectPass Stargazer
Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light. |
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Grandpa Ripper
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Joined: May-19-2021 Location: Lake Tapps, WA Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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Posted: September-09-2021 at 9:08pm |
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Transmission coolers should be considered a wear item. When the tranny needs to be rebuilt, it is time to get a new cooler. They are not that expensive, yet are pretty critical. If they start leaking or are clogged up, you likely will not know about it until the newly rebuilt tranny is toasted again. Then you will wonder why you tried to save a few bucks in that area.
Just my opinion of course.
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"If you are thinking like everyone else is thinking, you are not thinking."
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Wilhelm Hertzog
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Posted: September-10-2021 at 3:22am |
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New cooler is lying on the shelf waiting to be installed. I didn't order new cooler lines though - just flushed the old ones out. My thinking is they're easy enough to replace if they should spring a leak at some point in the future, so until that time, I'll run with the old ones. Things which can cause trouble/leaks and are difficult to replace without pulling the trans (seals, sealing surfaces) I'm not taking chances with.
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1982 Ski Nautique PCM351W RR II Velvet Drive 10-17-003 1:1 II PerfectPass Stargazer
Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light. |
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Wilhelm Hertzog
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Posted: September-10-2021 at 3:28am |
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I still don't have clarity on this. Anyone with some insight here? Ken suggested that the springs have eleven coils, and hence the 11/12 confusion, but that is not the case: there is definitely a conflict between the two service manuals about the number of springs to use.
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1982 Ski Nautique PCM351W RR II Velvet Drive 10-17-003 1:1 II PerfectPass Stargazer
Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light. |
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8122pbrainard
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Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Posted: September-10-2021 at 5:56am |
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I've never heard this before. Anyone else?
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KENO
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Posted: September-10-2021 at 6:59am |
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Ken deleted that comment about 5 minutes after it was posted,after he looked at a spring and you changed your reference page 12 springs came out, put 12 back in |
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KENO
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Posted: September-10-2021 at 7:09am |
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Considering that if you buy a new transmission or in many cases with a rebuilt unit also, the warranty is void if you don't replace the cooler, you can call it whatever word you want to use I suppose. |
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8122pbrainard
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Posted: September-10-2021 at 7:31am |
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Good to know but I don't recall the warranty issue ever coming up before.
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Gary S
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Posted: September-10-2021 at 8:01am |
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I think it was mentioned on skidims site. Dont know if its their policy or not. Edit- just checked,if you look at the description of a new velvet drive its in there.
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GottaSki
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Posted: September-10-2021 at 8:02am |
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After i rebuilt it, added a remote FL1-A filter, something to consider
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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FFImarine
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Posted: September-10-2021 at 11:59am |
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11 reverse springs are used not 12 and your cooler is either good or bad but it doesn’t hurt to replace it during a rebuild along with your damper plate
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You break it I’ll fix it
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KENO
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Posted: September-10-2021 at 12:29pm |
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Why did he take 12 out?
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Grandpa Ripper
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Posted: September-10-2021 at 1:38pm |
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You are now filtering the transmission fluid?
(Love the Wind in the Willows reference! Ratty is my hero!)
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"If you are thinking like everyone else is thinking, you are not thinking."
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FFImarine
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Posted: September-10-2021 at 1:48pm |
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Early models had 12 holes newer models have 11 holes not sure of the reason but when I rebuild them they all get 11 springs
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You break it I’ll fix it
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KENO
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Posted: September-10-2021 at 1:55pm |
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And Wilhelm was comparing an early manual with a newer manual.
There's your difference Wilhelm
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FFImarine
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Posted: September-10-2021 at 1:59pm |
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You break it I’ll fix it
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GottaSki
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Posted: September-10-2021 at 2:00pm |
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Heh, Ratty rocks, an island of sensibility
Yes, a local hose shop made a third hose for me, set me up with the hose connection to npt fittings to run a remote filter. it goes into the filter hot for best flow, then to the cooler. |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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Wilhelm Hertzog
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Posted: September-10-2021 at 4:30pm |
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Great info, thanks Joe. But now I'll forever be wondering why Borg Warner changed from 12 to 11 springs. And why using 11 springs on an older transmission with 12 spring holes is better than using 12 springs. I never seem to get to the bottom of the rabbit hole with these things! |
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1982 Ski Nautique PCM351W RR II Velvet Drive 10-17-003 1:1 II PerfectPass Stargazer
Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light. |
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KENO
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Posted: September-10-2021 at 4:40pm |
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Just me, but just cause Joe uses 11 and yours was built with 12...........I 'd probably put in 12 and not worry about it.
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FFImarine
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Posted: September-10-2021 at 5:55pm |
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Putting 12 in isn’t going to hurt anything so instead of wondering just put 12 in and don’t worry about it |
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You break it I’ll fix it
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Gary S
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Posted: September-10-2021 at 6:44pm |
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I'd figure a way to add a 13th one just to mess with the next guy
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Wilhelm Hertzog
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Posted: September-29-2021 at 6:10am |
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Came across quite a nice disassembly video from Hale Marine here: video.
Question: at around the 7:25 mark, the presenter mentions that the bushings inside the pinion carrier assembly/output shaft hadn't spun. How can one tell if they have spun or not? By confirming that the bushing holes line up with the shaft holes? Or is there something else?
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1982 Ski Nautique PCM351W RR II Velvet Drive 10-17-003 1:1 II PerfectPass Stargazer
Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light. |
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FFImarine
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Posted: September-29-2021 at 8:45am |
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There is 2 bushings in the planetary and there are holes in the planetary the bushings line up with
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You break it I’ll fix it
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FFImarine wrote: