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eric lavine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-08-2008 at 4:47pm
just trying to draw you in to the conversation
"the things you own will start to own you"
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nates78ski View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nates78ski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-08-2008 at 5:18pm
I think one of the big problems with the US auto industry is that they got complacent. GM was in troublw in the early 90's, then they started improving, once they saw that improvement, they just sat back & let it plateau then sink & now they're back in the same situation.

Withholding the consumers & their buying trends, if the executives at the domestic automakers didn't sit on their laurels and just think "well, we're GM, Ford, etc, we could never go under..." & well here we are, on the eve of one of these companies going under. It's sad, but they will probably go under, but on the flip side of that, organizations will not take a change initiative seriously until they're actually FORCED to do so, but they'll be back, running as a leaner and more change-ready organization.

The biggest problem the Auto industry is having is that good news travels much slower than bad news. i.e. back when the import cars were of better quality versus the domestic cars, that news spread quickly. But, now that the domestic automakers are closing the gap, or have closed the gap, a large chunk of the people in the country still have a perception that imports are better.

Just think about it: When you've had a bad experience with a company, how many people did you tell 5-10? & on the flip side, when youve had a good experience with a company... 1-3?

Nate
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eric lavine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-08-2008 at 5:56pm
sit for one hour and think what would really happen if every American decided not to by an Asian car for one year.

what would happen to thier economy?
what would happen to our economy?
the price of cars are market driven,
there are 2 ways to make money, by volume and by price, if your sales decline you have to increase price, if your volume increases you can decrease prices. prices of new cars have skyrocketed to compete and this is why you are seeing lease programs disappearing, because the turn in value is not there. the car depreciates so much when it rolls off the lot. actually i think it would only take 6 months
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azeus17 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote azeus17 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-08-2008 at 9:32pm
Eric-
That was me in China. There are a lot of problems with the auto industry, to many to even get into here. But I hope they do something to clean it up because it really would be a shame for the US to lose such a large part of its history.

On a brighter note, gas prices are back down to a reasonable level. Maybe people will start buying nice, big, profitable SUV and trucks again. Wouldn't that be something if all the sudden the LARGE car market took off and Detroit is ready to build them while the rest of the world is stuck making go karts. I am going to do my part and buy a Tahoe or Yukon this spring.
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eric lavine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-09-2008 at 11:31am
Azues, what did you think of China?
the gas prices dropped and i sold my 454 suburban....they'll be back...(gas prices)
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64X55 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 64X55 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-09-2008 at 6:14pm
Wow, just saw the replies since Friday when I wrote my "world record length" post.

Interesting stuff! I hate to see such trouble with U.S. auto makers.

I liked Eric's words about foreign cars not being any better than U.S. cars. It's encouraging coming from someone who works on them.

I like the idea of being either a Ford guy or a Chevy guy; or maybe even a Mopar Man!     BUT, while I've owned a Ford Taurus, a Mercury Cougar, a Chevy Caprice and a Chevy Astro in the past 10 or 15 years, I've also put (so far) over 215,000 on a little Honda Civic and it's still going strong. But then again, my Dad has a newer Honda Accord that, while in many respects is obviously a great car, he's had some recurring problems with brakes and electrical stuff and it's not very old.

The same thing happened with electric guitars in the 70's and 80's (I'll talk about something I know here cuz' I'm an ole' geetar player). Japanese bought up a pile of old classic Fender and Gibson guitars, studied them in great detail, and then started copying them superbly and cranking out some fantastic electric guitars, while Gibson and Fender were "on vacation" for a while. Increasingly, players began to criticize the quality of the U.S. builder's instruments. Gibson almost went out of business at one point (I think in the 90's). Fortunately, someone with a good business head turned things around, basically by, so I've read, improving (or restoring) the quality of the once great product. Oh, and in the mean time there was a noticeable decline in the quality of what Yamaha was making (guitar-wise).

It makes you wonder about what Eric said about some foreign car's quality going downhill more recently. Is it just a business sense thing? They build well for a while and then take it easy in an effort to save money for a while just riding on a reputation? Sounds kind of short sighted, if that's the case. You'd think a company would keep working hard to stay on top.   Of course there's always the possibilities of plain laziness or overconfidence to consider?

In the case of Honda, I doubt if that's it. In the news not long ago, they were talking about a Honda spokesman who was discussing the Hydrogen powered car they've developed. They asked "What about the fact that there is no wide spread network of fueling stations for such a car?" He replied: "When Henry Ford decided to mass produce cars (gas powered cars), there weren't gas stations all over the place either!"

Companies like Yamaha and Honda are impressive and they apparently do lots of homework, pretty often, it seems, studying stuff we made first!

Incidentally, (and I know this is an "inboard heavy" site) how many here knew Yamaha made a really great stern drive unit that used a GM engine? They say they were excellent drives, but that Mercruiser was just too big for them to keep producing them competitively. I see one of those drives every now and then on a boat in a sale flier.

For that matter, how many knew that Volvo Penta once made an outboard? Yep, they did!
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64X55 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 64X55 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-09-2008 at 7:10pm
Okay, had to make this a separate post because I wanted to address Austin's (AbundDiga909's) follow up to my earlier long rambling.

First, Austin, I appreciate the tone of your reply. I figured I was getting a little sharp on a few points and I sort of expected that I might be setting up there to get my head bitten off! Anyway, thanks for that!

I did want to comment though (hopefully more briefly), since a couple of things in your reply caught my attention.   

When you say "I'm not asking us to embrace their religion" my thought is that, assuming someone holds to the belief that the Christian faith played a larger roll in the development of our country than some now say, if we would see a Muslim taking the office of U.S. president, as incidental, then that is, in a very real sense, the U.S. embracing Islam.

I understand there are lots of folks who have no quarrel with that; too often, I'm afraid because they just don't really care about such things anymore.

The differences in how we're viewing things here are clear in that you are ready to let go of what you call a "notion" (the idea that we were first, and for a long time, a Christian nation) but what I would call an important fact of history that we should hold on to for some very good reasons.

To say we should be celebrating the thought that "we were founded by immigrants," for one thing, I'm not sure is right either. Nothing really wrong with "celebrating" immigrants being here I suppose (since many (or most) of us are immigrants (or decendents of)), but the statement has a ring of all this celebrating diversity stuff which I think is again getting back to embracing "all" of "everybody's" belief systems when I am trying to respectfully maintain that there are not many roads to the same place (spiritually speaking) and that our country held that as a majority opinion once upon a time.

I'd say we might certainly celebrate that we were, early on, "populated by" immigrants and so there's a diversity of cultures here; it makes life interesting for sure, as they say "variety is the spice of life" but I have seen too much detailed info. that supports the fact of a very strong Christian heritage in the U.S.

I also understand the attempted balance you're trying to achieve by saying that (I'm paraphrasing here) you would never ask anyone to embrace our religion. That does sound good and fair and balanced at first, and it sort of sounds like another well-worn saying – something like "I don't like people trying to cram their religion down my throat, etc. etc. " (or something like that).

I suppose I agree with the "cramming" part, but as for "asking" (as you did say), someone to "embrace our religion" if it is Christian, I'd have to say I would be all right with that. After all, that is a basic tenet of Christianity, to strive to persuade others to believe.   "Go...teach all nations...teaching them to observe all things...I have commanded" are words of Jesus (see Matthew 28:19-20 on what's commonly called "the Great Commission").

I know I'm getting a little "preachy" here for a web site about boats, but hey this is the "Off Topic" forum!

Again, I understand there was more to what you originally posted than the spiritual content, but I guess I sort of honed in on that as the most important.

And again, thanks for taking my rambling seriously and respectfully.

Craig
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