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the long road ahead - 67 Nautique resto/mod

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WakeSlayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-24-2010 at 1:37pm
What would you replace the exhaust boards with? I really don't feel like paying for a big chunk of fir for two little squares. Is this foolish or is it ok to use some pine or whatever I have laying around.
I do have a fir 1x6, is this going to give me enough material with a 3 inch hole through the middle of it? It doesn't seem like there would be too much stress here.

I believe the rudder port piece is 3/8" plywood.

Tim, wanna send me a couple small squares of coosa? ha ha.

Mike N

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-24-2010 at 2:52pm
I am feeling you on that. I do not want to put ply back in there! But I sure as siht do not want to buy a $250 sheet of coosa!
"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-24-2010 at 3:04pm
Keegan,
Most home centers will have small 2'x2' sheets of exterior ply. I suggest it because ply will give you the support needed in both directions due to it's alternating grain in each layer.


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77 Tique

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-24-2010 at 3:25pm
Thanks pete. Is it true that the only difference between marine grade ply and external is the amount of voids between layers?
"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-24-2010 at 3:26pm
Originally posted by Keeganino Keeganino wrote:

Thanks pete. Is it true that the only difference between marine grade ply and external is the amount of voids between layers?


Yes


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77 Tique

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WakeSlayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-24-2010 at 3:51pm
I have some nice chunks of 3/4 exterior left. Any reason to not just use that on my exhaust and rudder? Neither were that thick, but does it matter?
Got the exhaust mounts out. One was really bad, the second wasn't rotted nearly as bad, but still wet and delaminating.
I drilled an inspection hole in my transom and am happy to say it bright yellow dry wood. I did one hole in the center. I may do a top and bottom just to be positive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-24-2010 at 3:58pm
Mike, by '88 all of that was 3/4...in my boat anyway.

I gotta throw this in for anyone in the neighborhood; Sweetwater has some sweet fir ply that is the nicest ply I've worked with short of cabinet grade. It has very few voids, it's sanded nicely, and it drinks the CPES!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-24-2010 at 4:12pm
What size chunks of coosa you looking for Mike dimensions and thickness. I probably have scraps.
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WakeSlayer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WakeSlayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-25-2010 at 2:49pm
Joe,    I measured the voids and they are roughly 6.75 x 8.75, I am figuring 3/4. I do have ply I can use, no big deal.

We got the stringers dry fit yesterday. After having the boat jacked up, and replacing the old stringers, there was a significant gap under the front half of the stringers. We compared new and old and they were about as exact as they could be. After going back and forth a couple times, we decided to drop the boat, and lift it slightly from the keel at about where the skeg is. This gave us a much better fit. There are still voids, but what I would expect now. We confirmed all of our measurements, and I like how they fit.
I got 3 coats of CPES on them. After the first coat I noticed we had failed to create drain channels, and to radius the tops of the primaries. Ooops.   Will do that tonight and get more CPES on those spots.
I have not drilled the hole for my cable block post yet, either, but as I had to move the one on the Mustang due to the newer style cable.
Mike N

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WakeSlayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-29-2010 at 3:11am
Got the port main stringer bedded tonight. Went really good. I put down a layer of thin consistency epoxy, and strip of wetted glass, and then peanut butter on top of that. Set the stringer in, centered and pushed down with moderate pressure until it sat down like when dry fit. I smoothed the beveled channel as well as I could with the excess. There just was not enough mixed up to do a proper fillet, but I will go back and do nicer ones after I get the second stringer set Monday. If I was not going out of town, I would get all the stringers in and a good deal of layup done this weekend.

Here are a couple pics I took earlier this week.









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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-29-2010 at 3:37am
looking good! I am watching your progress. Just got my motor out today.
"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-29-2010 at 9:46am
Mike,
Since you're using West, make sure you wipe down the cured resin with a damp cloth to remove the amine blush. You only need to do it if the epoxy has cured. If you go with next layers after the previous ones have just "kicked", then it's not needed.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-29-2010 at 10:41am
Looks great Mike. We'll be doing the same thing come spring on the Barracuda and will be using this as a guide. I'm really interested in how you are going to apply the different types of cloth and exactly what they are.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WakeSlayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-29-2010 at 12:55pm
Pete, I never found any blush last year when I did the Mustang. I will keep my eyes out and will wipe down anything I am recoating anyway, just in case. I have read about it before, and kind of thought that my shop conditions and the West help minimize if not eliminate any blushing. I could be wrong. I will not be in my shop til Monday, so will look again then.

As far as the layup, I am taking and mixing everything I have read and direct advice, together.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote storm34 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-29-2010 at 2:33pm
Mike/Pete, can you guys explain amine blush a little more? I've heard the term before and knew to wipe everything down if it cured but still a little lost as to what it actually is...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WakeSlayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-29-2010 at 2:50pm
Apparently it is a waxy sort of buildup that comes to the surface after the eopxy has cured. I constantly checked for it last year and never ran across it. It will prevent a good bond if not removed. Epoxy, primer, paint, etc will not stick properly. I believe just soap and water will remove it. Pete will better explain it than I.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-29-2010 at 3:01pm
Mike's right on for the description. I don't know exactly what it is but it's like a by product of the cure. Some brands of epoxy don't do it so there must be a chemistry difference. It is water soluble so a solvet wipe won't cut it.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WakeSlayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-29-2010 at 3:18pm
I am curious to what made you recommend watching out for it since I am using West Systems.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skfitz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-29-2010 at 8:06pm
Originally posted by storm34 storm34 wrote:

Mike/Pete, can you guys explain amine blush a little more? I've heard the term before and knew to wipe everything down if it cured but still a little lost as to what it actually is...


ammonium carbamate

It's made when CO2, the nitrogen compounds released by the resin, and atmospheric moisture react on the surface of your epoxy job.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-29-2010 at 8:38pm
Originally posted by WakeSlayer WakeSlayer wrote:

I am curious to what made you recommend watching out for it since I am using West Systems.


Mike,
Only because the Gougeon boys have always made a point to explain the blush in all their publication. However now, who knows since they sold the company and the formula may have changed.

Mas on the other hand makes a big point about their epoxy not having the blush.

I don't know about supplies more oriented towards commercial like U.S. Composites. I've never seen much printed material from them.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WakeSlayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-05-2010 at 5:32pm
We got the starboard main bedded last night. Filleted this morning. All three installed stringers are level, square and right where I want them. Have the port main filleted, and the port secondary's first two strips of glass down. I hope to get a good amount of glass on the mains tomorrow during the day, and install the last secondary tomorrow evening. Then just layer after layer after layer of glass. I need to coat the exhaust and rudder boards once more, and bed those in. Hopefully I can get to that tomorrow also. I am trying like mad to get the layup done before I head to St John. We'll see...
I swear I will get pics up as soon as my bro gets me all the ones he has taken.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-05-2010 at 6:00pm
Sounds like you are moving along really well. Post those Pics! Its raining like crazy here, so I am not going to get much done this weekend.
"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-05-2010 at 6:08pm
Originally posted by WakeSlayer WakeSlayer wrote:


I have not drilled the hole for my cable block post yet, either, but as I had to move the one on the Mustang due to the newer style cable.


I think I am going to run into this problem. PO replaced steering cable 3 years ago and he said it turns to one side sharper than on the other because of the new cable. He told me this after I had the thing apart already so I am not sure how significant the difference is. Ahhhh something new to research here on CCF.
"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WakeSlayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-05-2010 at 6:16pm
Once I re-attached the cable in our Mustang, it was really obvious that the cable could not be adjusted into what makes it an even swing position. The adjustment tube on the new cables is a different length if I recall correctly. I believe both the Ponyboat and the SN had original cables when I got them.
Just install that or at least test install before you put your floor down. Tim also suggested to someone using a bracket to install onto the strut bolts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-05-2010 at 6:59pm
Keegan,
To clarify what Mike has mentioned, the tube is adjustable in the block.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WakeSlayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-07-2010 at 1:37pm
Last stringer is beeded and filleted. Got 3 layers of glass on the mains, 2" 2" 4". I am thinking about doing an 8" then back to 4", then another 8". Installed my rudder box board, also. Today I will get the gas tank mount boards added to the rear of the mains and a bunch more layup done. I would like to get the secondaries finished with the tape part of the layup, we'll see about the mains. I need to also install my exhaust boards before I get too far. I think I am going to peanut butter them in and then use a board on the outside to suck it on to the boat. 3-4 screws from the out side pulling the inner board against the hull. I am not drilling until later.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WakeSlayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-08-2010 at 12:35pm
I am going to run out of epoxy.

I got several layers of tape on the mains and the newest secondary. I installed the risers for the gas tank also. Next I plan to install the exhaust and get some glass on those and the rudder plate. After that I will get the last couple layers of tape on the mains and start on the biax.
My stupid computer at home will not allow me to post pics for some reason, despite telling to allow scripted windows.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote storm34 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-08-2010 at 12:58pm
Mike, glad to see someone is making progress in the cold weather. If you want, send me the pics and I'll see if I can get em posted!

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Mike's Pics.....Looking good man!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Lake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-08-2010 at 1:38pm
Mike, really nice work!
Are you going to use the same motor mounts . . . using lags into the stringers, or are you considering some kind of cradle?
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