Debt

ononewheel wrote: This is exactly what I am referring to. You pay for all the services you use and the ones others use. Everybody should pay for it, even if you are ultra rich. Not many are rewarded with food stamps etc. I cannot believe there are vast amounts of people whom collect food stamps and the like, and would not prefer to work a job and receive an honest days pay. I know most uneducated positions in this country do not pay a living wage, which almost forces that person to find two jobs or look for help. Most on here can see how inflation has affected us at the grocery store, no how about if you make $8.00 an hour. Man that would be tough. And don't say "they should go to school and get an education to earn more" Who the hell will do those jobs then? I just think if you work in this country and put in honest work, you should get a decent living wage. So now, why when the budget doesn't balance, are we going to balance it from the pocketbooks of those that can least afford it? Do you think Mr. Boehner is taking a cut to his medicare. How about his children's school, are they cutting 40% of the teachers? When is the last time any of them in Congress or the Senate made a mortgage payment? Probably haven't in sometime because some lobbyist funnels money for his political stance. Whomever said "both sides are to blame" is exactly right. Damn I cannot understand why a majority cannot see it. We have become a nation of little b***hes to our so-called government. The hypocrisy of the new debt deal is astounding.   It calls for a "Super Congress' what the .....    Why has the tea party not stood on this. "super congress" sounds rather unconstitutional to me. Isn't that what the tea party is all about?

I have a problem with me paying for the services I use AND the services others use in this current system. If everyone paid it'd be different. I'm sorry you feel that the rich don't deserve an incentive for their work.

Your statement "Everyone should pay for it, even the ultra rich" is what I have a problem with. I think that "Everyone should pay for it, regardless of income level."

We all supposedly benefit from these taxes, yes? no? Well certainly we benefit from some of them, but not to the same extent. There are all sorts of subsidies and programs out there that your $8/hour buddy qualifies for that I do not. You can bet your ass that my taxes are paying for those "programs" though. Don't believe people aren't willing to work an honest day's job? Come to my neck of the woods. I'll show you some of those people since you can't find many people who do it.

Should they get an education and find better employment? I don't know....why not....I'm sure there's a program out there that'll pay for it courtesy of me and you. It couldn't hurt. No incentive to work for $8 an hour, right? Let the illegals do it.

I make a decent living in a job that has good flexibility. My wife is a schoolteacher. Our income is probably what most would consider average. We drive a 9 year old SUV and a 4 year old SUV. We live in a starter home neighborhood and carry little debt, yet it seems that b/w federal, state, property, sales, prepared food, tourism, and many more taxes that I've missed, I can't afford to take care of my future like I need to. I've got 2 kids to get thru college. Two weddings. You get the picture.

To add insult to injury, I started looking closely at the social security statement that we all get annually. In the fine print it states something like, "your actual monthly payment may be different than shown based on any retirement, 401k accoutnts, etc."

I'm certain that by the time I retire there'll be some additional, additional 401k taxes that will basically take that much more from me to pay the people who "couldn't find the discipline" to put some back.

Where's the incentive to do anything anymore?

I don't care about Boehner, his teachers or his mortgage. Why wouldn't his teachers been faced with job cuts? My wife's school district was effected.   His mortgage? Maybe he had a mortgage and paid it off early. There are people who do that you know. It's possible.

Don't mean to be preaching, but it just hacks me off that anyone insinuates that working people (like me) aren't paying enough in taxes.

Super Congress. Nothing super going on up there except a Super Waste of Time and Money. I will agree with you that both sides share the blame here. Both got us into this mess and both seem to be committed to riding this ship all the way to the bottom.

Again, sorry to preach or offend. I'd rather have this cordial conversation over a beer, but this forum will have to do for now.

Just the way I see it.

Steve,

I think you misunderstood.You pay enough but the ultra rich do not. And Boehner and his boys just want you to pay more for receiving less. The same can be said for the corporations that do not pay the fair share.
It is the middle class that always gets screwed.

We have the lowest corporate tax rate in history, and what is it getting us?
Major corps. would rather still move over seas.   

I'd love to discuss this over a beer someday with anybody. Had I joined the forum earlier I might have gotten to one of the reunions.

In all honesty, politics piss me off, and I'd rather go skiing or wakeboarding instead.

finally.....someone in the middle
you guys pissed, just sent another 2700.00 check to to buy bullets.

ononone, you said something that i always wanted to say 2 posts up, but didnt have the balls

Ding ding ding ding, It is official, the liberals have realised they cannot win the argument on facts or logic so they have pulled the race card! That does not fly with me, I challange you to go back through this thread and find a single reference to race from the conservatives. I have said nothing different about Obama than I have said about Pelosi, Ried, or Jimmy Carter back in the day. It is thier shared policies that are a problem, and it has not one thing to do with race. I dont hate people, I hate, high taxes and bad policies, because I believe they are bad for our country.

eric lavine wrote: finally.....someone in the middle you guys pissed, just sent another 2700.00 check to to buy bullets. ononone, you said something that i always wanted to say 2 posts up, but didnt have the balls

Eric, you have said it before. By the way you still did not answer my question about How Obamacare (the mother of all regulation)increasing the rate of healthcare inflation helps us. Actually your none answer speaks volumes.

OverMyHead wrote: One wheel, the top one percent of earners pay 40% of total federal taxes burden. That means out of one hundred people they pay their share of the divided costs and the fair share of 39 others. The top 5% pay 60% of the burden. The bottom 50 percent pay nothing and the bottom 40% (thats 4 out of every 10) are net recievers from the government. Please answer this, what percent in your mind would be the riches fair share?

With all due respect, that is a weak argument and a regurgitated talking point the GOP has been using for years. I usually stay away from these topics but this one really ticks me off. Yes, I do not like that everyone is not paying their fair share and that includes the bottom 40%. I support a flat tax with no loopholes. However, the top 1% do not pay their FARE SHARE either (Share meaning percentage of income). The fact is, the top 1-5% of earners pay less of a percentage of their income than the middle class. In simple terms, to me, that means that every dollar Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, David Koch, or Kim Kardashian makes is worth more than mine. They must have worked harder for it right?

OverMyHead wrote: ononewheel wrote: Steve, We have the lowest corporate tax rate in history, and what is it getting us? Major corps. would rather still move over seas.    I'd love to discuss this over a beer someday with anybody. Had I joined the forum earlier I might have gotten to one of the reunions. Our lowest corporate tax rate in history (Thats bull by the way) are (combined state and federal) the highest in the world, combined with high labor rates, and high regulation, and technology that makes global commerce extremely viable, corporations have choices and the math is pretty clear.

If you can post ONE impartial source that says this I would be amazed.
The fact is just the opposite, and I will post where that can be found.

High labor rates...
You have unknowingly admitted to the truth you wish to hide. You would like it if we all made minimum wage, hence the "race to the bottom" comment I made in an earlier post.

ononewheel wrote: OverMyHead wrote: ononewheel wrote: Steve, We have the lowest corporate tax rate in history, and what is it getting us? Major corps. would rather still move over seas.    I'd love to discuss this over a beer someday with anybody. Had I joined the forum earlier I might have gotten to one of the reunions. Our lowest corporate tax rate in history (Thats bull by the way) are (combined state and federal) the highest in the world, combined with high labor rates, and high regulation, and technology that makes global commerce extremely viable, corporations have choices and the math is pretty clear. If you can post ONE impartial source that says this I would be amazed. The fact is just the opposite, and I will post where that can be found. High labor rates... You have unknowingly admitted to the truth you wish to hide. You would like it if we all made minimum wage, hence the "race to the bottom" comment I made in an earlier post.

Here is a chart of corporate tax rates from the organization for Economic Cooperation and developmen. This is a 50 year old organisation that looks impartial to me. here is a link to their site

OECD


Corporation tax rates by country
Country Combined corporate tax rate, , %
SOURCE: OECD

Australia      30.0   
Austria        25.0
Belgium        34.0    
Canada        29.5
Chile          17.0
Czech Republic 19.0
Denmark        25.0    
Finland        26.0
France        34.4    
Germany        30.2   
Greece        24.0    
Hungary        19.0   
Iceland        15.0    
Ireland        12.5    
Italy          27.5    
Japan          39.5    
Korea          24.2   
Luxembourg     28.6   
Mexico        30.0    
Netherlands    25.5   
New Zealand    30.0   
Norway        28.0    
Poland        19.0
Portugal       26.5
Slovakia       19.0
Spain          30.0    
Sweden        26.3   
Switzerland    21.2    
Turkey        20.0    
United Kingdom 28.0    
United States 39.2


You have no clue about my wishes, you are welcome to ask but please do not assume. I wish everyone to live to their full potential and desire, that is why I cheerish freedom and our founding fathers vision. I wish that what they earn to be determined by their individual drive and god given talents, along with what the market will afford them, that is why I am in favor of free enterprise. I wish for a strong economy and full employment and that is why I fear the distructive path this country has taken placing burdens of high regulation and high taxes on business hindering our a bility to be competitive in a global economy. We are destroying our future for immediate gratification.

ononewheel wrote: OverMyHead wrote: One wheel, the top one percent of earners pay 40% of total federal taxes burden. That means out of one hundred people they pay their share of the divided costs and the fair share of 39 others. The top 5% pay 60% of the burden. The bottom 50 percent pay nothing and the bottom 40% (thats 4 out of every 10) are net recievers from the government. Please answer this, what percent in your mind would be the riches fair share? \ Where in the he** do you get this from????? My a**.

From the IRS, sorry if you dont like the source.I dont care much for them either.


I have asked the fair share for the rich guestion to many liberals and I are the first one to give me a strait answer. I have concluded that for most any answer that does not include "always more" is not acceptable.
as far as doubling the tax on the rich, re-read my earlier post, the rate and collections have do not have linear correlations, your solution would bankrupt the country nearly overnight.
As for fair, put any group other than "the rich" in this sentence and see what you think.

We need to increase the burden on _______. (Blacks, Hispanics, women, immigrants, democrats, left handed people, ...) It seems you in fact have a predudice against one specific group and want to single them out for special treatment as slaves to the rest of the country. Nice.

ononewheel wrote:    The hypocrisy of the new debt deal is astounding.   It calls for a "Super Congress' what the .....    Why has the tea party not stood on this. "super congress" sounds rather unconstitutional to me. Isn't that what the tea party is all about?

I am not a big fan of the super congress but ther is a big difference between "sounds rather" and "unconstitutional". Article one of the constitution sets up three seperate branches of government, and gives the house and senate the power to self police and decide their own rules, so if they want to form a super congress they can. Anything the super congress produces has to be ratified by the full house and senate. The tea party is all about raising awarness of the constitution so when people try to falsely portray it they will get called on it.

Ok, I cannot let you skewed information be the last on this topic.

Yes you are right. On paper the US actually collects, what, the second highest rate.
What you are not showing is the US actually collects the second lowest revenue from said taxes. I am sure you will point out again other countries collect less of a rate, and they do, but they also closed the loopholes which the US has not.

Can someone help me out here in explaining how to post a graph on here?

Here is an article from Rueters about Microsoft.
Here is the short version.
Reuters notes that Microsoft’s tax rate last year was just seven percent, due to the company’s extensive employment of tax havens:

    Microsoft is straightforward about the core reason for its lower tax bill: It is increasingly channeling earnings from sales to customers throughout the world through the low-tax havens of Ireland, Puerto Rico and Singapore…The change is fueling its shrinking tax bills. According to its 2010 annual report, by keeping a good chunk of foreign earnings away from the U.S., Microsoft has accumulated $29.5 billion overseas — and that is before the impact of its last financial year.
Microsoft joins a slew of corporations that take advantage of tax havens to drive their tax rates down. Google, for instance, paid just a 2.4 percent tax rate last year thanks to its use of tax havens.

At the same time that its sheltering income all over the world in order to avoid taxes, Microsoft is part of a coalition lobbying for a tax holiday that would allow corporations to bring money they have parked in tax havens back to the U.S. at a dramatically low tax rate. The holiday would cost nearly $80 billion, while a similar holiday approved in 2004 did not deliver any of its promised results.

Oh my.....You mentioned Regan. Ok, you go back to Regan times....I'll stay here.

Regan Firsts.
First to serve as Governor on a "conservative" platform and increase spending by 112%.
First Governor to increase personal income taxes by 60%, increase the cigarette tax by 200%, and increase state tax collections by 152%.
First to have a popularity rating of only 35% after his first two years in office.
First to have had a shotgun wedding.
First president to have been divorced.
First to increase spending by 80% – in only 8 years.
First to spend more in eight years than was spent in prior 50 years.
First to cut taxes by 60% for his rich pals.
First to have increased the national debt faster than growth of national income.
First to "almost": triple the national debt.
First to increase the national debt faster than growth of GDP.
First to double the deficit.
First to turn America into a debtor nation.
First to set a record for the largest one day percentage decline in the DOW in history. 10-19-87.
First to have "real" interest rates of 8% after averaging 1% over 35 years.
First to keep prime interest rates at 20%.
First to have home loan interest rates as high as 16%.
First to allow the savings and loan industry to be raided after signing a deregulatory bill and proclaiming "I think we have hit the jackpot". Come and get it the vaults are unguarded.
First to send an autographed Bible to a man he called "The Satan of Terrorists".
First to have an admiral plead the Fifth Amendment.
First to have a stealing, lying, gutless wife abusing Marine LT. Colonel plead the Fifth Amendment.
First to have a sitting cabinet member indicted.
First to have an Assistant Secretary of State indicted.
First to have an Asistant Secretary of Defense sent to prison.
First to have over 100 members of an administration charged with crimes.
First to have more members of his administration charged with crimes than the cumulative total of all other presidents in the twentieth century.
First to testify "under oath" 130 times that "I don't remember".
First to have an Admiral with a photographic memory testify 128 times " I don't remember".
First to repeatedly falsify his wife's age, as though anyone cared.
First to promote his religious faith and while never having an active membership in any church.
First to never use the term Jesus Christ in speeches.
First to have unemployment at 10.8% since great depression.
First to attack a small unprotected nation with 88,000 inhabitants and 10,000 bb guns, and then proclaim "America stands tall again". "we have whipped the Vietnam Syndrome. We have defeated communism".
#1-in farm foreclosures.
#1-In bank failures.
#1-In Savings and Loan failures.
#1-In percent increase in personal bankruptcies.
#1-In having servicemen killed during peacetime.
#1-In largest drop in popularity in one week.
#1-In being first to honor Nazi Storm Troopers by calling them" Innocent Victims".
First to lie - over and over- to reporters "I do not dye my hair; my barber uses a special shampoo."
First to have a wife who "forced" him to wear three suits in one day.
First to boast "Not bad for a dumb guy who worked only 20 hours per week".
First to have his wife sit nearby and whisper answers to questions.
First to have his press secretary remove him from the microphone when he could not answer questions. (When the reporter shouted out "answer my question", the president replied "my handlers won't let me speak").
First to have a Special Assistant say on national TV "sometimes you had to hit him on the head with a 2 x 4 to get his attention".
#1-In needing a staff person standby during press conferences to tell the press "what he really meant".
#1-In recorded misstatements.
#1-In never having a single press conference in which he did not make incorrect statements.
First to invite the Pope to visit the White House and "bring the wife and kids".
First to fall asleep while the Pope spoke.
First 20th Century president to have historians rate him below every president of the 20th except for Richard Nixon. 1994 Poll.
First to have been openly alienated from his children.
First to suggest his eldest son undergo psychiatric examination.
First to have been voted in British polls (twice) as the "most feared leader in the world" sic em Rambo.
First to have his official biographer state on national TV: 'After he was shot in 1981, he got slower and slower each year. His speech got slower. He deliberated more and he hesitated more when he spoke. He lost his physical quickness and would not make decisions on the spot. It was a very, very slow and steady mental and physical decline".
First president to have the Geriatrics Department of a major university study his behavior and conclude that after three years in office he had Alzheimer's.
First to have over $10,000,000 increase in wealth from serving for 8 years as president.

And in the spirit of the original post.....

Now that a agreement has been reached, can you explain why the government would make trillions in cuts, but not raise revenue by one cent?

If it were about balance, wouldn't raising revenue make sense?


RIght now corporations are seeing record profits, so where is the trickle down right now. It still isn't working.

I never did like Reagon either, do the Pubs actually have someone on their ticket with a degree? actors, oilman, housewives wtf

One wheel, You asked me for non biased sources and I gave you the IRS and the OECD, you give me Think progress.org voted best libeeral blog in 2006. You will have to do better. What was your source for the Reagan list, talk about twisted and non pertinant facts, great example of a distorted hit piece. Kind of like taking a blank piece of paper and saying its a picture of a polar bear in a blizzard. it is all white, I guess it could be true. I could do the same with Obama, most money spent, most vacations, most rounds of golf,most expensive date, smokes, but are these really the issues? Thanks for revealing your sources, it helps us to understand you biases and why you are so missinformed.