New to me 78 Tique |
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Swatkinz
Platinum Member Joined: December-03-2003 Location: Lexington, SC Status: Offline Points: 1307 |
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The sound of those boats under acceleration never gets old. Nice boat. Looks like fun.
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Steve
2011 Sport/Air 200 Excalibur 343 2017 Boatmate Tandem Axle Trailer Former CC owner (77, 80, 95, 88, all SNs) Former Malibu owner (07, 09) |
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 959 |
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We put a jabsco impeller in. No timing yet. Need to get a light and read up on that. We are working on the trailer as well. Where would the VIN most likely be located? I haven't found it yet.
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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Donald80SN
Grand Poobah Joined: January-12-2009 Location: Denver, NC Status: Offline Points: 3896 |
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David, It could be stamped on the axel. I would also be looking at the tongue near the hitch for some numbers stamped. About nine years ago, I went through the NC process of tagging a trailer with no title. If the trailer can pass for homemade, it is a simple process. However, if that is not likely, there is a process to go through with the state that I can give you some help with. It is not pretty, but doable. It involve getting a bond to protect the state if the trailer is stolen. Basically, you are buying the state a three year insurance policy if it turns out the trailer is stolen. Just let me know if you need some info on that deal. I saved my paperwork. Donald |
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1980 Ski Nautique SOLD Back to Cypress Gardens
2002 Sport Nautique, GT-40, FCT2, Cover Sports, Tower Bimini, Inc., Wet Sounds Audio System, Star Gazer Wake Edition S. 1968 Ski Nautique, Project. |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3610 |
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The boat sounds great. Looks like you got a bargain.
Watching your video where it shows the engine running with the cover up. The water pump belt looked very loose to me. Could be a source of your high RPM temp rise. |
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 959 |
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Great call on the belt being too loose. Took the boat out today and the temp stayed right under 160. Went a little over at WOT.
Did some cleaning and a trailer switch in prep for White Lake. A tique on my sport trailer is funny looking but we have a ways to go for long trips on the original trailer. Question: Is there a way to remove the Pitot without unscrewing from the transom. There looks to be a pin. I want to take it off bc it is in danger of getting hurt by the bunks on my sport trailer. Any thoughts? |
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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David, The pitot is spring loaded. Flip it up out of the way. |
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 959 |
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Thought you all would get a kick out of some pics of the Tique's trailer empty. This trailer has been through a lot! It looks like it has been worked on so for now we are going to keep using it and keep our eye out for others. It was jack knifed at some point and it looks like it was straightened (some) and the post moved to the center. The measurements from hitch to hub are equal and it seemed to tow well when we brought her home.
The previous owner also overloaded the trailer coming from Wisc to NC. The tires are bad, tread worn completely off of the insides. We have new tires. We also put a laser on the axle and it looks straight. Would you suspect that the spindles or hubs are messed up? Or could the load have just flexed the axle assembly and not permanently messed it up? |
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 959 |
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Have a 12x14 prop on the Tique now. Specifically the prop reads 12ELLIS14R. Would we get noticeably better performance out of a different prop? Anyone have one for sale or for trial at White Lake?
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3610 |
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I had a 13 x 14 on my 78 Nautique and really liked it. We did not use it in a short course where faster acceleration might have been needed but the engine worked well with the 13 x14. Your 12x14 on the lighter boat should be about right unless you are in elevation all the time. 3,000 foot plus maybe. It is at least a good starting point.
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 959 |
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Boat hasn't been driven since White Lake. While there we learned a lot and got started on a tune up. From the White Lake thread:
Thanks Donald for the shout out for the tow of shame. Thank goodness that electrical gremlin surfaced late in the day, it had come and gone another time with us not getting the chance to chase it. Unfortunately it came back during a tune up lesson that Tim Benjamin and Dave Hart were giving me (we didn't have a VOM or test light on the water to track it down so a tow was in order). Thanks to Mark and Patrick (Team PCM) for finding the elec issue quickly on dry land. And Tim stepped up Sunday morning and gave a tutorial on points and setting timing before hitting the road for his long trip back to CT. I had a great time and learned a lot, and of course saw old friends and met new ones. Hope to see you all at Badin later this year if not sooner. Once home we went back and forth a LOT on whether to buy a Holley or rebuild our Edelbrock due to a float level issue and a gasket leak. We looked for a deal on a Holley and found nothing. We could have bought a rebuilt unit and new flame arrestor to fit but decided for the money we would try a rebuild and wedge plate on our Edelbrock 1409. If this doesn't work well, we will keep an eye out for a Holley. Planning to pop the wedge and carb on this weekend and try to fire her back up. Wish us luck. Any tricks to priming a dry carb? |
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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From time to time Holley sells some on ebay.They are new ones that have been returned to them for one reason or other, retested and sold as refurbished. You have to keep looking they turn up every now and then. Last one I passed up because I thought they had more was actually cheaper. Original ebay listing
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Alex47
Senior Member Joined: November-11-2010 Location: Tarzana Status: Offline Points: 136 |
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Great looking boat! love the pics!
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 959 |
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Need some general carb guidance and possibly some edelbrock specific guidance. Put the carb back on. Order is gasket, 1" pcv spacer, gasket, 8 degree wedge, gasket, carb. We got it all on and wrenched down tight. With throttle still disconnected we verified that primary and secondary opened smoothly. Got it fired up and idling good around 800 rpm. That was done with the idle screw and the starboard idle mixture screw. Boat runs great up through ~38-40 mph.
Problem, once the secondaries open and we are hitting 40+ the boat surges a little (like it is starving). Just won't quite get that last bit of power and high sound. Goes ugh ugh at top end. Is that the other mixture screw (port side)? Haven't messed with it yet, it is 1.5 turns out as per instructions. Also, the accelerator pump linkage was set on the top hole when we got the boat. The rebuild instructions said to set it on the middle hole. Doesn't seem to make a big difference as I changed it on the lake. Thoughts on this? Is there possibly an issue with the spacer and the wedge? Thanks for any and all info. I am on the water today and tomorrow morning and would love to make some changes as I of course would love to get her rolling before leaving the lake for 3 weeks. |
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10753 |
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Both of those mixture screws are for idle mixture
Here's a link to the tuning manual, it's a whole lot different from a Holley. Plenty of tuning instructions manual Could be a fuel pressure issue or partially clogged inlet screens, there is a screen for each bowl. It's easy to miss the one for the left hand bowl. edit not so much the screen itself but the passage upstream of the screen which can load up with junk Each bowl feeds 1 primary and 1 secondary nozzle, unlike a Holley with a primary bowl and a secondary bowl |
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 959 |
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We used a manufacturers rebuild kit 1477 and replace all parts that it came with including needles seats and screens. The calibration instructions seem to refer to jets and metering rods for different altitudes. We had a good running high end carb before reinstalling.
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10753 |
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Logically you would have to say there's a problem with the spacer/wedge or the carburetor rebuild. take your pick What was the original issue you were trying to resolve? Sounds like it was a float issue of some kind earlier in the thread You must have had to reset the floats due to the wedge installation |
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 959 |
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Original problem was a flooding issue when off. Thought to be a float /angle issue. We did reset the float level to factory spec. 7/16". And put wedge on to make level. Can the order of wedge and pcv be an issue. I find this weird bc the boat runs great until 40. In my mind that means the bowls are full and the floats are working.
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 959 |
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Take a look at the following video. I go to full throttle three times. The second time I go up and leave it. The bogging can be heard on that the best.
Carb video |
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10753 |
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What you did seems logical to me.
The wedge/PCV order shouldn't matter. It seems like the problems start when the secondary air valve starts to open to let the secondaries put fuel into the engine As a guess the secondaries are probably coming into the picture at about that speed/RPM. edit I noticed that you said the same thing earlier What was the float level measurement before it was adjusted to 7/16 just out of curiosity. Most of these Edelbrock/Weber/Carter carbs like to sit pretty level but it sounds like the previous owner did some tweaking. Some people have bolted them on with no wedge with good results though. Sounds like one of those overnight head scratchers |
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 959 |
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I forget but the changes to the floats we're within a 16th to so. Not much at all.
Is it possibly a timing issue? I wouldn't think so since it runs well up to that point. Def seems fuel/carb related |
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10753 |
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Hi Dave
Didn't see the video till this morning, I didn't get much from it. Since you mention timing.............one thing that's served me well over the years was something an old timer told me long ago. That was "when you're sure it's a fuel issue, look at the ignition system and if you're sure it's ignition, look at the fuel system. (Unless it really obvious and you can see or already know the problem) Don't know if that pertains here since it runs great up till 4000 rpm or so, but you should have 10 degrees or so advance at idle speed and about 34 degrees at 3000-3500 rpm as reasonable advance numbers. From what you said though, it ran better before the wedge and carb rebuild. with no other changes? Otherwise hard to try to give suggestions without being there |
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4248 |
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Are you sure you have adequate fuel flow to the carb? It might be worth running from a fuel can to eliminate fuel line issues from tank to pump. Or put a fuel pressure gauge inline to monitor if it drops above 4000 rpm.
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 959 |
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The following video probably allows you to hear the issue the best. I go up to full throttle and just leave it down. I was trying in the video to show that the throttle is maxed while you can hear the boat surging. Also, the oil gauge is darn near pegged at 80. Is that ok?
Carb video 2 |
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 959 |
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Could this issue come from an air leak due to a bad gasket seal? When putting the wedge on we had to use force bending the bow studs back a little. Then when putting the carb on we had to use force and do just the opposite, again on the bow studs (secondary side of carb). The issue was due to the wedge holes not being elongated enough. So our studs were kinked a bit. With hindsight I am questioning whether we could have had an air leak on the secondary side. We thought they tightened down well enough. I am confident we were able to get good seals on the primary side. I feel like we are so close. By the way, the wedge gets the carb level with the gunwales so it seems like a good angle fit.
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10753 |
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This probably won't be what you want to hear, but if you're confident that the rebuild was right, I think I'd undo the other thing that was done and go back to no wedge and see how it runs. Sounds like you might need new studs though.
At least that will tell you something either good or bad. An air leak around one of the mounting gaskets will show up and have a lot more of an effect at low speeds and you say it's great till it's secondary time. The other choice would be popping the top on the carb and rechecking everything you did. The bowl gasket is plenty durable and it won't be a problem taking the top off again. Are the mid range tuning needles both working together? If nothing else, I got this back to the top for ya |
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 959 |
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Thanks Keno and others for your suggestions. I spoke with Edelbrock this morning and after a long conversation I believe the elec choke could be our issue. It wasn't working properly and we didn't really care...who needs a choke to test a carb on a boat. Welllllllllll, that choke butterfly that was wide open at idle and while the boat was off is believed to have been sucked shut at high RPM making for a rich condition and then relieving itself once back down in RPMs. So, next up is to try it again with the same setup but fix the choke butterfly. Looking like a long week of just thinking about it before I can get back to the boat.
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10753 |
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Just asking the obvious but does this mean you did something different with the choke during the rebuild since it ran good before the rebuild and wedge plate installation with the choke plate flappin' in the breeze.
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shadow
Newbie Joined: July-27-2015 Location: badin lake, nc Status: Offline Points: 34 |
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I posted a reply to the parts wanted, my name is Jerry, I have the red 1978 ski tique that's on Badin Lake, my boat has the 302 commander engine also. I had some problems with my engine last year. I replaced the points, plugs, condenser, rotor button, plug wires, checked ignition timing, same problem, boat would run great and just start slowing down, wide open it would run pretty good. So I ordered me a 600 cfm quick fuel carb, installed new carb, same problem with on new problem, fuel was dripping from the new carb when the engine was off, I could see the float level was off because the new carb has sight glasses to check the float levels. I installed a 12 degree holley wedge plate to level the carb and the sight glasses look good, no more fuel dripping down the carb when the engine was off, but still had the same problem. Installed a fuel pressure gauge and the fuel pressure was all over the place, the fuel pressure was buzzing from 0 psi the 7 psi. , when I got back to the dock the engine just stalled and would not start, looked at the fuel pressure gauge and had no fuel pressure with the motor turning over. I replaced the fuel pump and now the fuel pressure is steady at 6 psi, I have not had the boat back in the water since I replaced the fuel pump but it runs great on the trailer. I think the fuel pump was the problem all along, I think running easy the fuel pump could not keep up and the motor would slow down, running wide open the pump could keep up, until it just finally stopped pumping at all. I have the stock holley that came on the boat if you want to try it out. I hope this helps you out, cause I know these problems are a pain, I could have saved a little money if I had put a fuel pressure gauge on it to start with. I live in Badin Shores now, If I can be any help just give me a call. Jerry 336-339-3428
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shadow
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3610 |
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That is odd that you are running out of fuel at high rpm on a trailer.
There is no load so the fuel demand is low compared to on the water under full load. Sounds like you are running out of fuel. Double check the float adjustments. If you were on the water under load I suspect you would run out of fuel much faster. It does sound great till it starves out. |
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 959 |
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We didn't do anything different to the choke on purpose. Got it back together and thought it was correct. We were wrong obviously. Have the carb at home hoping to reevaluate the choke tomorrow night. I believe our only issue with the choke is spring tension when cold.
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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