Oil threads here are confusing

See, the manuals are dated material compared to the oil formulations that are out there now. Some people's recommendations on what oil to run if based on info from only a 2-3 years ago is outdated as well.

If the oil had not changed formulas like it has recently, then the manual would be a good source for oil info. Heck, IIRC the manual doesn't even recommend synthetics, LOL

I love the phrase "RTFM", but in some instances like this, it is not applicable anymore.

Not sure how closely you have follow-ed all the talk about oils on here, but, I think the key issue most guys are discussing is the best oil for older, flat tappet motors, and not the temperature at which the boats are operated in.

Recently, the government has mandated that oil mfgs take out the additives that provide wear protection called ZDDP (zinc, and other goodies). ZDDP plugs up catalytic converters....and contributes to air pollution, supposedly. We can't have that.   

The flat tappet motors key wear/friction area is the contact area between the cam and the lifter/tappet. Your motor, being somewhat more modern, may have a roller rocker valve train, not sure. The roller rockers do not have the same severe wear that the flat tappet cams do, and therefore may be much less suseptable to the high wear flat tappet cam issue.

So, it is my opinion that most of the banter is on ZDDP levels to protect the older motors, and not the viscosities related to the temperatures at which the motors are being used in.

Some of the others I am sure will be along soon to weigh in, and may be able to give you more specific information about your specific engine, and the best oil for you. My boat is a '76, so I am much more concerned with ZDDP levels for cam wear protection.    

See, these darned oil issues are confusing I knew I might have been getting those two issues or ends of the valve train confused. Roller rocker sounds more natural to me than roller cam. But, yes, roller cam is what I meant.   

So, it sounds as though Brody may need to be as concerned also about ZDDP levels, maybe more so than viscosity levels.

I have been running 15W40 just because its easy to get, and I "think" it has high enough levels of ZDDP. I will soon find out however. I would feel just as comfortable running straight 30 or 40 weight as well, assuming it had enough ZDDP.   

BTW, I picked up some 5-30 because a buddy of mine uses it in a 1994 nautique with the same motor, and I already use that viscosity for my truck. No other reason. But I havent' changed the oil on the boat yet, so there's still time to get it right.   

Brody wrote: Seems like you fellas all run older boats. I don't know anything about the type of motor I have and zinc, etc. I found 20-50 and I think the 20-40, but those looked more like heavy machinery oil, not really something used in a regular motor. Neither listed the zinc levels.

While its true that most here have older boats than you, your 2000 GT40 has a flat tappet cam- so it falls into the same category as the old iron.

From what Ive read, oil technology has come a long way in recent years. Even in the last 10 since your boat was new. Multiviscosity oils are much better than they used to be. Most oils have less zinc (ZDDP) than they used to. Unfortunately, the manual's recommendations are a bit outdated.

Oil will generally not list the ingredients and amounts on the bottle. What it will reference is the API specification that the oil meets. If it meets one of the newest, you can bet it has reduced zinc levels. To get more info beyond that, you need to pull the datasheet- most are available online. You'll find that most oils that meet the older standards (and dont have the reduced zinc levels) will be labeled "off road" or "racing". Oils specified for diesels used to be a good choice, but now even modern diesel oil has less and less of the ingredients that our "low-tech" motors need.

Long story short, people here have done a lot of research on what is best to use. Valvoline VR1 and Shell Rotella (straight weights) are your best bet. I, and many others, prefer the VR1 in 20w50. If I were to do a lot of late and early season (cold weather) skiing, I may choose to go with 10w30.

horkn wrote: BTW, you can convert 351w's and 302's to a roller cam, but as to the RR I don't know if that creates an issue. You might need a custom cam. Also, you can get a roller block 351W block.

Tom,
Some have great engine/mechanical backgrounds/instincts. Sounds like Brody needs to work on his oil education and may not be the greatest in the engine department like yourself so why confuse the issue by bringing up roller cams?

TT a dealer today, he said they use 15w 40. Has anybody used the Amsoil Synthetic 20-50...says right on the label "hi zinc". Also found an oil called "Brad Penn" at Napa in a straight 30. Apparently that is more of a break-in oil, but also claims to have a high zinc content.

BTW, I thought I was working on my oil education by picking the brains of people with the education???   

To clear this up, i have a 1996 196 with 2300 hours on it.In the UK oil seems to be a little easier to find.Im about to change the oil ready for winter.
Im going for 20/50w Valvoline VR1.

Its got 1300ppm of zinc from what I read.Am I correct in the above views ?

Brody, Amsoil works well, and yes it has high zinc.

I wouldn't use a break in oil for regular use.

And yes, by asking those that do know, you will know too:)

Thanks HOrkn, I'll consider that "green lighted" also. Here's another question...are the 15w40's all primarily considered a diesel engine oil?

Thanks everyone!

Brody wrote: Woa, easy does it davidg. You completely misinterpreted my comment (I can see why when I reread what I wrote). Somebody else made the comment that I needed to further my oil education, and I was just stating that is what I'm doing here on CCF talking with you guys. I'm not questioning any advice here, certainly not mocking it. Admittedly, I had hoped for a definitive answer, but I've discovered oil advice is as tricky as nutrional or parental advice...many differing opinions can be supported be selective facts. So here's what I got out of this thread...I just picked up Valv 20w50 VR1 and returned the mobile 1. I realize they may have reduced the zinc, but from what I read they still label it a "high zinc" formula. And I'll stick with that or 15w40 Rotella or valvoline. I've learned friends shouldn't let friends give bad viscosity advice. That assuming a big 8 cyl in your truck shall not be compared to the big 8 cyl in your Nautique.   But most importantly, don't admit to buying anything at Walmart. Still, I'm curious about the Amsoil 20w50 Synthetic High Zinc stuff. I can buy that in my small hometown, but doesn't seem like too many on this forum have any experience with Amsoil.

Brody....My apologies if I mis-interpreted what you were saying. I must be getting crotchety in my old age I guess I just jumped to conclusions about what you meant.

Anyway, I think you made a good choice in oils. A couple reasons for saying that.

1.) Many of the guys on here seem to like it. So, you can't get a much better recommendation than that.

2.) I was at Farm & Fleet getting a new set of tires today, so I had PLENTY of time to peruse the huge wall of oil brands there. Long story short, knowing what I know now after trying to absorb as much as possible on this forum, and other searces, the Valvoline VR1 20W50 was the ONLY oil that jumped out at me as being one I would buy.

- On the can, it said "Extreme Race Level Protection".           
- Upon reading the back of the label, it did say it had extra ZDDP for wear reduction. It didn't say how much, but, the fact it even mentioned it gave me confidence that it was good stuff.

Some other observations on oils in general:

- Not many mfgs offer straight weights anymore. Mostly multi's.
- LOTS of misleading information on the cans....ie..."high performance", "good for high milage engines", "Meets Mfgs Requirements...", etc, etc, etc.
- Based on all the great marketing slogans on the packaging, one might think that every oil in the place was THE BEST oil.
- Mobil 1 synthetic jumped out at me as being potentially very confusing. LOTS of multi-weight offerings with very slick slogans on the packaging. Sure, synthetics can go 10K, or 15K miles between changes, but, I think what that is saying is that the oil doesn't break down like std oils do as quickly. It doesn't really address the issue of ZDDP/Anti-Wear forumulas, so to me, that could be very misleading, and one could potentially put something they think is great in their engine, and it could be the total wrong stuff.

So, for me, it would be the Valvoline VR1 20W50, or the Rotella's. However, one very knowledgeable at Farm & Fleet told me he switched from Rotella to Delvac (Mobil's Diesel Oil) 15W40 in everything he owned, including Harley's and 60's muscle cars, as it didn't seem to breakdown as early as the Rotella did, and allowed his oil pressure to stay much higher for longer periods of time.    

horkn wrote: TRBenj wrote: horkn wrote: Rotella and VR1 are 2 of the oils that have changed their formulas recently. You have posted this several times recently and I question your information. What are you basing this on? To my knowledge, both the straight weight Rotella and VR1 both have 1300+ ppm zinc. The info has been posted before. It's out there for anyone to find.

Tom,
I'd like to see it as well. Just as Tim mentioned, you've stated the change now back it up. The figures I'm finding are still in the 1300 range.

What does this mean?
Zinc/Phosphorus
0.14/0.13

What is the minimum level of Zinc we need for the flat tappet cams?

As far as the Rotella 15W40, based on what I have been reading, the API code for diesel use has gone from CI-4 (older rating=good ZDDP levels) to CJ-4 (newer rating=less ZDDP). I believe the Rotella 30W still carries the older CI-4 rating. Maybe the T1 designation is the newer CJ-4 rating??