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Water Pump, G55-2, 1989 Barfoot Nautique

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    Posted: June-28-2016 at 2:57am
Hi guys! I'm homing to get some help here:
I bought a very well taken care of BFN 2 months ago now, and put a new motor in it due to the previous owner not winterizing.

I have the boat running perfectly, but now I cannot make enough water pressure out of the water pump (impeller housing) to make it too the thermostat housing. The bearing on the pump seems fine, and this is impeller has all of its fins. The pump is a Sherwood g55-2 on the 454 motor. Hoses are installed correctly, and it's like the water can't over come the 16" climb to the thermostat.

Any ideas of what the issue could be? I don't have any leaks between the water inlet, and the inlet side of the pump. Also, the screen and Velvet Drive Oil cooler is clear.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DayTony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2016 at 3:18am
if your positive everything is installed correctly than i have to ask if you may have installed the impeller the wrong way. you have to preload the rubber vanes in the correct direction. if not they may not perform correctly.or you could possibly be getting air leak somewhere before the pump.
The pumps are not designed to create massive pressure. more volume than pressure. How did you come to this and how are you testing this btw.

Heres another question. the stock 454 is reverse rotation, at least factory it was. you say you have a new motor, assuming its still reverse rotation?
Most of the pumps components are the same and can be run in either direction they just get assembled differently.

If your at a dead end and think everything is right but obviously something is not i would start with the pump itself. draw an arrow marking its rotation before removing it. then double triple check its been put together correctly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2016 at 9:31am
Yup, sounds like the pump is plumbed backwards. Hope you just swapped the hoses vs got a LH engine back- that would be a much bigger can of worms.

You don't need to worry about the direction the impeller is installed- it will right itself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DayTony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2016 at 9:47am
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Yup, sounds like the pump is plumbed backwards. Hope you just swapped the hoses vs got a LH engine back- that would be a much bigger can of worms.

You don't need to worry about the direction the impeller is installed- it will right itself.

i always wondered if it would but preloaded them the way they want to be regardless.

its been a while since i rebuilt one but isn't there a piece inside that gets mounted in one spot for rr and a different side for std? not sure what its called its like a half moon shape. Thats more or less what i was worried about with the assembly of it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backfoot100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2016 at 9:49am
Originally posted by Cambodia Cambodia wrote:


I bought a very well taken care of BFN 2 months ago now, and put a new motor in it due to the previous owner not winterizing.


HHHMMMMM, Very well taken care of yet wasn't winterized????? Isn't that an oxymoron.

Like others have stated, the pump is probably reversed and I hope that the replacement engine was the correct rotation.
When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2016 at 9:53am
Originally posted by DayTony DayTony wrote:

   isn't there a piece inside that gets mounted in one spot for rr and a different side for std? not sure what its called its like a half moon shape. Thats more or less what i was worried about with the assembly of it.

Tony,
It's called the cam and is what compresses the fins on the rubber impeller. When the fins come off the cam, they expand to the ID of the pump body causing the negative pressure on the suction side of the pump.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2016 at 9:55am
Originally posted by backfoot100 backfoot100 wrote:

Originally posted by Cambodia Cambodia wrote:


I bought a very well taken care of BFN 2 months ago now, and put a new motor in it due to the previous owner not winterizing.

HHHMMMMM, Very well taken care of yet wasn't winterized????? Isn't that an oxymoron.
.

Yes, I'd sure be looking at other "well taken care of" maintenance items!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2016 at 11:24am
In the OP's defense I like to think I take care of my boats. If something happened to me tomorrow I'm not sure the others here would know what to do. Nor I'm sure would I care- so let's not come down on him,we have no idea on the circumstances
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2016 at 11:39am
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

. If something happened to me tomorrow I'm not sure the others here would know what to do.

I'm sure the CCfan family would be able to handle it.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2016 at 11:56am
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

In the OP's defense I like to think I take care of my boats. If something happened to me tomorrow I'm not sure the others here would know what to do. Nor I'm sure would I care- so let's not come down on him,we have no idea on the circumstances


I'm with Gary here.

By the way, on your G55-2

If you have a RH rotation engine the suction line should be hooked up to the pump fitting closest to the centerline of the boat. Discharge to the T stat is the outboard fitting

If it's LH rotation the suction would be hooked up to the outboard fitting and the discharge to the one closest to the centerline

I verified this by looking at a LH 454 PCM a few minutes ago just to be sure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2016 at 12:03pm
^yes, the hoses "cross" underneath. The cleaner looking install means you reversed the hoses. The pump cannot be installed backwards.

There are only so many reasons the pump won't work. Crossed hoses, major air leak, worn out pump...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cambodia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2016 at 12:21pm
So I have already triple checked my hosing. The plumbing is configured this way:
-From bottom of boat, to inlet side of sand screen
-From outlet side of sand screen to inlet (top) of tranny oil cooler
-From outlet (bottom) of tranny cooler to inlet of water pump.
-From outlet of water pump, to thermostat, with a small 3/8 line T to the how water shower manifold.

The issue is I am not getting water all the way to the thermostat. Only about half way, even with the shower valves closed. I do however, Seem to have good volume out of the pump.

How do I check for air leaks, and where?
How do I tell if the pump is wore out?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cambodia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2016 at 12:24pm
As for fins on the impeller, I have tried pre loading, Both ways. Even if you load the opposite way, the fins work back into the correct direction it spins.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cambodia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2016 at 12:27pm
The inlet hose comes in on the 3oclock side of the pump, if you're facing the front of the block. Pump spins counter clockwise with the crank. so outlet water is coming out the 9 oclock side.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2016 at 12:39pm
A picture tells a thousand words and would correct any misunderstanding's
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2016 at 12:40pm
Hose sound correct. How are you currently testing your pump performance anyway?

Run a NEW hose from the INLET of the RWP to a 5 gallon bucket on the floor of the boat. You can use cheap clear vinyl tubing for now (don't rev past 2,000 rpm). Run a garden hose into the bucket and keep it running. Now start your engine. If the RWP is good it will pull water from the bucket and adequately supply the engine with water. If this is the case you've got an issue somewhere in your old hoses, connections, sand screen or trans cooler.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cambodia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2016 at 12:40pm
This is where I was at before I posted this thread:
When I bought the boat, I replaced the motor with a new RR motor. The motor runs great!
I also replaced the impeller with a Sierra brand knock off of the Sherwood 10615 impeller.
Once I found that I could not get water to the thermostat by sucking water out of my Fakelake, I just hooked a garden hose directly into the inlet hose (from the elbow in bottom of hull) and was able too water to thermostat and cool the whole motor down that way. Once I saw that I could get water all the way to the thermostat on a garden hose, but NOT from drawing out of my Fakelake, I pulled all of the hoses off to look for potential blockage.
I did find old impeller fins stuck in places, that must have worked their way back into the pump, but all of those are cleaned out now. So as of now, after double checking all my hoses, I am still not able to draw enough water out of my Fakelake, to make it all the way to the thermostat. With the thermostat hose off. It will burp water out of the end, once in a while, but its not a steady stream like it should be.

The impeller I have in there now is a little tore up, but has all of its fins.
I am thinking about replacing it, again. But like I said, I just put that impeller in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cambodia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2016 at 12:45pm
@Hollywood
what makes a pump bad? Just the impeller?
Aside from the bearing, spinning the shaft, I don't know what kind of wear/damage I need to check for to know if I need to buy a new pump or not. Especially since a replacement is
$500+
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2016 at 12:58pm
Originally posted by Cambodia Cambodia wrote:

replaced the impeller with a Sierra brand knock off of the Sherwood 10615 impeller.The impeller I have in there now is a little tore up, but has all of its fins.
I am thinking about replacing it, again. But like I said, I just put that impeller in.

The Sierra's are known to be a problem. On the Sherwood, there's a ridge on both sides forming an "O" ring type seal on the housing that the Sierra's don't have. Get a Sherwood.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2016 at 1:00pm
The Sierra impellers are known to be bad. Buy a genuine Sherwood [10615k] or PCM.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2016 at 1:03pm
Cams can be worn too and the seal could be sucking air, but HW is right get a genuine impeller you will see the difference in their construction. Get that in sand spinning the correct way and let us know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2016 at 1:05pm
Should be and not sand !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2016 at 1:49pm
Sounds to me like the fake- a- lake needs to be relocated to the bottom of a lake somewhere.

You said it worked with the garden hose hooked up...............now do Hollywood's bucket method and see if it works.

Bet it will work OK unless the impeller is really ragged.

Fake- a- lakes can provide a lousy seal, letting the pump suck air and not draw enough of a vacuum to suck any water assuming this is the toilet plunger looking contraption.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2016 at 2:07pm
Originally posted by Cambodia Cambodia wrote:

I just hooked a garden hose directly into the inlet hose (from the elbow in bottom of hull) and was able too water to thermostat and cool the whole motor down that way.

The house water pressure is doing the work not the RWP.

x2 throw away the fake a lake
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2016 at 6:36pm
Agree x100. Ditch the fake a lake and the Sierra impeller.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cambodia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2016 at 7:06pm
Well, I just purchased 2 Sherwood 10615 impellers for the price I paid for one Sierra knock-off. Live and Learn I guess. The thing that makes me nervous is I've used Sierra impellers before, along with fake-a-lake on my last boat (1988 SN2001) and never had these kind of issues.

If I replace the hose, do you guys have any recommendations on what kind to use?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bb12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2016 at 11:51pm
Originally posted by Cambodia Cambodia wrote:

Well, I just purchased 2 Sherwood 10615 impellers for the price I paid for one Sierra knock-off. Live and Learn I guess. The thing that makes me nervous is I've used Sierra impellers before, along with fake-a-lake on my last boat (1988 SN2001) and never had these kind of issues.

If I replace the hose, do you guys have any recommendations on what kind to use?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-29-2016 at 12:11am
No his boat used 1.25"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bb12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-29-2016 at 11:56am
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

No his boat used 1.25"

Yep, my bad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cambodia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-29-2016 at 12:40pm
Well, I could not draw water out of the bucket, with a new impeller. I cant see where I would be drawing air. I am starting to wonder if it is a pump issue. Has anyone heard of the whole pump being bad? When the bearings spin well, and the shaft isn't worn?
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