1988 Ski Nautique 2001 Electrical Problems |
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ben.hlaban
Newbie Joined: June-23-2017 Location: Appleton, WI Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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Posted: July-11-2017 at 7:36pm |
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Disclosure: CCF newbie - I plan to get my diary started as soon as I can get some good pics rounded up!
Background: I've owned my 1988 Ski Nautique 2001 since '05 - It's my baby. I've gone through some structural/cosmetic work (i.e. stringer replacement, new seat skins, carpet, etc.) and a some mechanical work (i.e. new coil, new distributor, etc.) I recently replaced the alternator and have had "electrical" issues ever since (i.e. low voltage gauge reading, temperamental kill switch, and now complete loss of electrical function). The other day, I was pulling my daughter on a wakeboard and the engine died like I'd pulled the kill switch - Dash switches all still worked (i.e. ignition, blower, pumps, engine cranks but wouldn't start). I was easily/luckily towed back to the dock where I poked around a bit in bewilderment (checked connections, etc.) with no success. This morning, I decided to temporarily by-passed the kill switch and it fired back up - I thought I had it licked (need a new kill switch). I took it for a solo cruise across a calm lake at 3K RPM watching the sunrise. After about 5 minutes, everything just went dead - This time nothing worked (no ignition, no blower, no pumps, no cranking - nothing). The wiring in the boat looks really old and seems like a rat nest (probably mostly original, but I can't say for sure). I'd like to overall the wiring completely, but I fear 1) that may not be necessary 2) it's a lot of time/money and 3) I don't know what I'm doing. Request: I'm looking for someone who can take a look at my boat, troubleshoot/fix the electrical issues, and recommend a plan of action (replacements, upgrades, etc.) Anyone within a few hours of Appleton, WI would be ideal! |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Ben,
Can you provide some more details on the ignition and alternator R&R you did? Why and what did you replace it with. |
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ben.hlaban
Newbie Joined: June-23-2017 Location: Appleton, WI Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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Replaced old points distributor with optical (?) distributor, which if i recall required coil replacement, but that was back in '05 and has been awesome since. The alternator I don't remember where I ordered it from, but the old one broke (physically, when tightening during summarization), which was last year - That's when the issues started popping up.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Ben,
Have you done anything to confirm the alternator is charging? With the engine not running, you should get the nominal 12 volts at the battery. Then, with the engine running you will get 14 plus volts. Was the replacement identical to the old or did you install a "one wire" alternator? Is the distributor a complete unit or did you install one of the EI conversions in the old? |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11061 |
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Pete Sure sounds like a whole distributor when you read the above. And it sounds like a Mallory Unilite. Is a one wire alternator something new to add to the list of things Pete doesn't like |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Ken,
I did read stated the distributor and I took it as such but just wanted to be sure. What do you mean I don't like one wire alternators? I never said I didn't!! The closest I would have come to saying something about them would have been not in a classic where originality is needed! |
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ben.hlaban
Newbie Joined: June-23-2017 Location: Appleton, WI Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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I used dashboard gauge to verify alternator (no multi-meter). At first had it hooked up wrong (had battery and ground mixed up). After I fixed that, gauge read ~10 volts at idle, but ~13+ volts with some RPM's. The replacement was not identical and it had a few more connection posts than the old (not sure what a "one wire" alternator is). The distributor was a complete unit and a new coil (both Mallary, not sure what model). Can't remember if new coil was "required" with new distributor or if it was "recommended" |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11061 |
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Here's a wiring diagram for a 351 of about your vintage
Judging by your description of what happened I'd probably check the 20 amp ignition breaker on the dash and the 40 amp engine breaker on the back of the engine to see if either is tripped as a start. The diagram doesn't have a kill switch because I don't think all years had them. |
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ben.hlaban
Newbie Joined: June-23-2017 Location: Appleton, WI Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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Engine breaker was not tripped and I don't see any breaker in the dash other than the toggle buttons and the one labeled "Ignition" appears to function fine (clicks in/out like all the others). Is there another ignition breaker under the dash? If so, I don't see easily see one - Do I need to take the dashboard off to get at it?
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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From the volt readings you are getting I'd suggest having the alternator checked. With the reverse connection of the battery, there's a good chance one or more diodes are blown in it's rectification bridge. Also, how are you cleaning the battery posts and the cable terminals?
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11061 |
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You got the right breaker, the ignition breaker.
Somewhere in that diagram you'll find your problem though. Don't forget to check the obvious like battery terminal connections |
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ben.hlaban
Newbie Joined: June-23-2017 Location: Appleton, WI Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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Just put in a brand new battery and cleaned connections at the battery.
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ben.hlaban
Newbie Joined: June-23-2017 Location: Appleton, WI Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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I sense you'll be telling me to get a multi-meter out soon - I sort know how to use one, but don't know how to apply it to this situation (i.e. locations to test, what to test first, or even where to put the probes for each location)
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ben.hlaban
Newbie Joined: June-23-2017 Location: Appleton, WI Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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I'll have the alternator tested and let you know. I clean the terminals with a wire brush. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11061 |
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I'd look at the diagram and see if you have 12 volts at the batt terminal on the keyswitch (that's where the red wire hooks to the keyswitch)using a multimeter
If you don't, then go backwards toward the battery checking the ignition breaker to see if there is 12 volts in and out and the engine breaker to see if there is 12 volts in and out even if the breakers seem to be not tripped. Next going backwards would be the connection at the solenoid. You can check that all those connections are clean and tight too. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11061 |
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Set it on the 20 volt DC scale and black wire goes to a ground on engine.or battery and touch probe on the red wire to each of the connections I mentioned above. Make sure you get the DC scale and not AC. For practice just test your battery voltage the same way. Black to negative and red to positive and you should see roughly 12 volts |
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ben.hlaban
Newbie Joined: June-23-2017 Location: Appleton, WI Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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Should I do all this testing without the engine running? Is so, I assume the key should be in the "on" (or "running") position? Also, can you confirm where to touch each probe (i.e. red to test point and black to ground)? |
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ben.hlaban
Newbie Joined: June-23-2017 Location: Appleton, WI Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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This forum is awesome - You seem to answer even before I ask!
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Hey Ken this is from a guy who has a land line probably rotary service too |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11061 |
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Engine off and key off is good for this testing.
It doesn't run right now anyways does it? |
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ben.hlaban
Newbie Joined: June-23-2017 Location: Appleton, WI Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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Correct, it does not run.
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11061 |
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Maybe it's one of these |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11061 |
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I got the feeling you'll find that you don't have 12 volts at the key in that path from the battery that we talked about a handful of posts back. Even if your alternator has no output the boat would have run on just the battery for a while and your dash power wouldn't have gone away completely. unless one of those breakers tripped or you have a broken connection Check those places we mentioned in the morning or when you have a chance |
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ben.hlaban
Newbie Joined: June-23-2017 Location: Appleton, WI Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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I'll do some testing Thursday as I'll be on the road all day tomorrow traveling home from vacation in AL.
And THANKS for all the help so far! |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11061 |
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Here's a link to a recent similar issue that turned out to be the main breaker and tells where he got a new one in case that turns out to be your issue.
link |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Ken and Gary, You're close but I've gone modern with my equipment on the POT's line. Here's the latest from wonderful Frontier! |
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ben.hlaban
Newbie Joined: June-23-2017 Location: Appleton, WI Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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I was able to successfully use a multi-meter tonight to trace problem to the engine breaker. Now, the question is what size? There's a 50 AMP in there now, but the manual says 40 AMP and the link to the skidim part referenced earlier in thread is for a 40 AMP as well... |
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ben.hlaban
Newbie Joined: June-23-2017 Location: Appleton, WI Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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None of the auto parts stores could test my alternator, so I'm going to take it to an electrical shop tomorrow to get it checked out - I'll let you know how that goes as well. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11061 |
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Good job,Pete will be proud that you found it with a multimeter The 40 amp will be fine, probably a better choice than a 50. If you manage to trip a 40 amp breaker you have a problem with the electrical system anyways. |
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ben.hlaban
Newbie Joined: June-23-2017 Location: Appleton, WI Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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I took my alternator into Fondy Auto Electric (http://www.fondyautoelectric.com/) to have it tested - They said everything looks good! My alternator is putting out max 51 AMPS, which brings into question the engine breaker size again. There's a 50 AMP breaker in there now, but it was tripped and potentially faulty so I'm going to replace it. According to my manual I need a 40 AMP breaker, but according to Fondy technician (Mark), I really should have a 60 AMP breaker if my alternator is capable of putting out 51 AMPS and I have a situation where my battery is low or has a bad cell, which would cause the alternator to output max 51 AMPs. Does anyone see a problem with putting in a 60 AMP breaker?
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